About this "terrorism" crap

I think you need to post or go diggin around for al-Qaeda fourms that preach the message and drop your science on them!

+ Its probally more then likely that this following or killing yourself for one shitbag Bin Ladin has probally turned into more of a movement or extreme psycho hate yer lowself esteem need depression pills idology! ie: most of these followers of this sort of movment have nothing or feel like they have nothing to live for other then DEATH!

 

I think the Koran is the only religious book that states killing yourself in the name of (Insert deity here) is okay.

Because faith is so strong in every single human, it is a fundamental building block of who we are - And I think that part of the mesage the extremeists are hearing (or telling their suicide bombers) is that we are trying to profane their religion, and you cannot change a religious belief with bombs and bodies.

~PM~

 

Religion makes people do stupid things, and by religion I don't mean any specific one in particular, they're all the same to me. It's a method of control. Moses didn't see a burning bush that wrote 10 rules in stone. He saw that his followers were beginning to dissent and needed to re-establish authority. After 40 years of being led aimlessly through the desert, I'd begin to doubt my leader as well. What better way to show authority than to disappear for a few days and come back saying you've spoken with "GOD", and this is what "HE" had to say. Sure.

Face it. Perspectives change. The world is not held up on however many pillars, "god's realm" full of angels and clouds and pearly gates is not beyond our sky, the world is billions of years old, not 5000ish. The dinosaurs *did* exist, we *did* evolve from primates. Of course none of this could be supported thousands of years ago, but here and now, it very much can be proven. Why not embrace knowledge? Stop following an extremely outdated practice that conditions people to believe what they're told, or they'll go to hell.

Gah, I'm turning this into a religion debate again...Sorry, it's a habit.

 

well..you should question everything..if you don't..how ever are you going to find answers?

 

It's not about doing what you're told, it's about a relationship. What happens if it is true?

 

[southpark reference] We are all just descendants of retarded squirrel frogs after all...... [/southpark reference]

 

Faith-based, organized religions are obviously true. I mean come on.. what within those various organizations could possibly be false!?

He's talking about religion, Mani. Don't turn this into a agnostic vs spiritual debate. Spiritual != religious, as you know.

 

what happens if its not?

 

Ranting against systems of belief that, together, have caused more horrible things throughout history than almost any other subject? Why would you ever speak out against that?

 

"What if the hokey-pokey *really* is what its all about?"
- Jimmy Buffet


~PM~

 

Well...not to nit pick...ok...so I am.... but the Israelites came to Mt. Sinai only a few months after leaving Egypt, not 40 years. And the whole burning bush experience was prior to the Israelites leaving Egypt, not after.

Not trying to be a turd...just trying to straighten out the timeline of events there...

Thats what I slept through in 10th grade biology!!!! Man...

No one is the wiser...in oblivious non-existence

Woah Pump...that's waaaaaaaaaaaay to deep for this kinda thread....seriously(in a homestar speech impediment kinda way)

edit: the 'e' on 'grade' I is smarts

 

No, it's not about a relationship. Well, I guess those who believe in it all would see it that way, but if you need to be told "be a good person or burn in hell for eternity" to have morals and kindness, you're already contradicting yourself.

What if it's true? Then we are living in a fairy tale. One where people find "salvation" not for who they are and what they did, but for believing in a specific god, and following the authority of the church, like good little sheep. So, obviously I'd go to hell.

But you know what? I'd rather spend an eternity burning in hell knowing that I wasn't just another sheep. I'd be proud to know that I chose my own path and lived my own life, free of the oppression that so many people blindly follow.

Free will? Uh huh.

**edit**

If all of this religions stuff *isn't* true? Sure, after death you won't be able to contemplate spending your life following false teachings, but...you still spent your life following false teachings.

 

Thank you for straightening out the facts. However my point remains valid, post-corrections.

 

Explain this to me, because I honestly don't understand your point. How is Mani's statement contradictory?
The relationship reference basically means that our salvation has nothing to do with our 'morals and kindness' but by who we have relationship with - God through Jesus. Salvation cannot be attained through 'good deeds'. That's the reason for the relationship.

So what are you saying here? That you believe 'salvation' is merit based? That people can attain it by living 'good'? I'm asking an honest question, because that's what you seem to give as the alternative to the 'fairy tale'- yet otherwise I would infer from your comments that you believe there is no need for 'salvation'. As for following the 'authority of the church' as a prerequisite for salvation - i guess if you are Catholic this might be an issue, what with excommunication and what not...but otherwise...

You would accuse those of faith of being blind and oppressed. Of being mindless sheep, lacking the reasoning ability to question or analyze the world around them. This seems to be a common mentality. But I wholeheartedly - and whole mindedly - disagree with that supposition.

As for 'free will'- I assume that's a shot aimed with the whole oppression theme... but i'm not gonna pursue that as its a huge theological discussion...

If my faith in God - not religion - is misplaced then I will have missed out on: what exactly?

You're welcome, but I'm afraid I disagree with regards to the validity of your point. Faith and science are not incompatible. In fact it seems to me that science points to faith. Obviously not everyone sees it that way...thus your statement. I don't have a problem with dinosaurs. But you can no sooner empirically prove to me that single celled organisms evolved into beings with complex and irreducibly complex systems and crawled from the mythical 'primordial goo' than you can disprove the existence of God. And I have yet to see definitive proof of man's evolution from primates. Sure I went to public school in America and got whole spiel...but I'm smart enough to ask questions and think for myself. How about what you said Kai -

If I blindly followed the faith of evolution, I wouldn't be doing what you suggested.

I consider myself a reasonably intelligent person (obviously this is susceptible to delusions of grandeur) and I have yet to be confronted with scientific evidence to prove abiogenesis or even just man's evolution from other primates. If you know of a convincing reference then I'll take a look...

Elsewhere you plainly state that faith is an intellectual dead end, but I would argue that many risk placing themselves into this very category by blindly accepting what they are taught- not by a preacher, but by a teacher. I don't know your background, and so I am not pointing to anyone here - but if you can make such an statement, I feel free to do the same. Indoctrination can just as easily come from the podium as from the pulpit, and in today's world such an avenue of paradigm molding is all the more convincing when it comes out of the classroom.


But, for the moment, assume that there is no higher standard. No God. Where did the Universe come from? How did everything spring into being? Did something come from nothing all by its lonesome? The Big Bang just blew itself into existence? Where is the continuance of this? Why isn't more matter appearing out of no where? If the universe has always been...will it always be? Then also why does death and decay seem to be the state of things?


Maybe you have the answer to all of that, but I've not been informed of an empirical/scientific answer to it.

To close: Faith is not the monopoly of the uneducated and mentally challenged. Neither is intelligence and open mindedness the monopoly of the atheist/agnostic/humanist/...


Anyway...I was trying to avoid posting all this since its late... but oh well...i took the bait. At this point my brain is really getting unresponsive...so good night

 

basically both "sides" have their loons...and unfortunately each side is judged by thier resident loons...its a path that we have taken in our society...to prove things or state ideas thru the negative veiwpoints of said loons...

just look at all the campaign adds on tv...reality t.v...we respond to negativity...we like to see people hating...or causing drama...or to be made fools of...we are reveling in meaness these days...

 

I don't even know where to begin with all of this. Let me start with this question. Why is it that we always end up in a religious discussion like this? Why is that a topic on terrorism ends up bashing Christians as well as other religions? This whole terrorism thing is nothing more than a religous war. It's not about some stupid oil field or people padding their pockets. Everything in your life revolves around one central thing whether you believe it or not or even like it or not. That one central thing is religion.

Now personally I don't like the word religion as it pertains to my faith in Christ. Religion is the organization of people following a common belief based upon what someone tells them to believe. I as a Christian have a relationship with a living God through the sacrifice of His son Jesus. Do I live a perfect life, NO I don't. I am not able to live a perect life. If I was able then Jesus died for nothing. My beliefs are built on life experiences where I have actually been through the trials and have seen how God has carried me through. I know what He's done in my life and how He has changed me and God please forgive me for the way I have been acting and living recently.

God is my Heavenly Father and like any good father He loves His children enough to teach them right from wrong. Your parents have tried to teach you things over the years and tell you not to do this and not to do that. Why? Because they have been through it already and know how things work and know the consequences of making the wrong choices. They just want to protect ther children because they love them. That is what God does. He sent Jesus as a living example of how to live our lives. Yes we fail, but like any loving parent God is there to love on you and hold you in His arms and tell you "It's ok, I still love you". Now that is the RELATIONSHIP that is Christianity. I do not blindly follow some idealogy presented to me by some man standing in a pulpit. I follow as best I can and know how, the example set forth to me by Jesus Christ. A man who DIED for ME that I might live eternally with God in heaven.

God's love for me is without conditions. He doesn't love me because I do the right thing. He loves me because I am His creation. Even when I mess up and do wrong, He still loves me.

So if all this is false teachings and ther is no heaven and no God and when I die I just die and poof like that I am no more, then I am ok. BUT, if what I believe is right, and there is a REAL Heaven and a REAL Hell, then I am ok BUT you who don't believe are in for a big surprise. And trust me, when you have died without Chrst and you come face to face with Him at your judgement, there is nothing you can say or do to get into Heaven.

Here's an analogy of what Jesus did for you.

Let's say you are in court on trial for grand theft and the evidence is overwhelming against you and there is no doubt you are guilty. The judge finds you guilty and fines you 2 billion dollars and gives you life in prison. Now this is obvioulsy something you can't repay. Just as the judges gavel is about to slam down someone busts through the door and stops the judge. He then walks up and tell s the judge that he wants to pay your fine and take your place in prison. The judge then says that because of this man's sacrifice and willingnes to pay your debt you are free to go. Now wouldn't you be greatful to that man. That is what Jesus did for you. He paid our debt that otherwise we could never have paid.

Well I think I have said enough for now...I have been distracted several times here so it has taken me forever to finish this.

 

Well said, Faith!

CS Lewis once wrote that Christ was either the Son of God or a liar/madman. If He was a liar/madman (He wasn't!) then we aren't out anything for living the Gospel. If if He is the Son of God (and He is!) then the reward is beyond our ability to articulate.