About this "terrorism" crap

::Huggles Test::

 

stop that...thats ghey...oh...wait...nvm....*sigh*

 

I've secured nothing, nor have I suggested such. Putting words in my mouth does your argument zero favors

That's up to you, entirely of course

 

I will write as I chose and tread where I will. I encourage you to do likewise.

 

im not trying to be hateful...im just curious...im trying to understand..however your responses are falling short of explaining anything....to me anyway...others may be very aware of what you are trying to say...however...myself being not from the same frame of mind need a bit more of an indepth explaination...

i was just saying...if you wish to delve into the hatefullness that i have encountered in my life due to my unchosen lifestyle...that is a delicate subject where you have no experience...to my knowledge...whereas i have been exposed to very many varied religions i feel i can speak freely about my thoughts on each..i spent part of my childhood in a muslim country...spent time in the bowels of a baptist community...was welcomed with open arms by the methodist...and have attended a mass or two with some dear friends of mine...im not saying im completly knowledgeable of religions but neither am i completly ignorant of them...and i fear thats what you are allueding to...

we all make presumptions about other people...without knowing backgrounds or life histories of each other...i will admit that i too am guilty of that...but whats that...thousand miles in my shoes crap or something like that...and for some reason...i don't know why...but was there something like that in the bible? the bible is a great resource to live a good honest life...ill admit that...do good unto others and all that...good stuff...but...i believe you can find that in the koran also...and almost any religious book...'cept maybe scientology....i think they just want all your money...oh...and your babies...they eat them you know

 

I don't understand half of his points either, test. They are either backed up by exactly the source I am argueing against (religion itself) or are vague dodges.

 

Never thought you were trying to be hateful and I will try to give the best , indepth answer(s) I can.

Wouldn't dream of doing such a thing. Hatefulness is a big waste of time, utilized by folks unable to articulate themselves in any sane or intelligent fashion--IMO

I cannot speak to your past personal experiences, because they are unique to you. Also, I can assure you I was in no way suggesting you are/were ignorant of anything--except what's going on between my ears, of course. But please, ask away.

I WILL submit now that if anyones writes as though they know whats going on between my ears will 100% of the time earn them either a non-sensical answer (to match any assertion they *know* what I am thinking or *know* how I feel about someone without my actually stating such) or a critque on which form of flawed arguement I feel they've presented.

Don't know about that one being from the Bible, but I can recall things along the notion of forgiveness (7x70), turning the other cheek and a few dozen other examples of forgiving those who "tresspass against us".

I agree.

I honestly don't know as I have never read it.

That would depend on your definition of *religious book*.

Which is why I am a profound disappointment to some, I suppose: I have no money

With sausage and pepperoni!

 

Wow.

Like... I was 3 pages behind.

Here is what I got out of it and am willing to share (I don't have the time to get REALLY indepth)

#1) Mani says he's more impatient. (E-gad~! I think he does pretty well. he certianly gives things a thought or two before responding...kudo's to Mani)

#2) Tyst is a lesbian. I knew that, and I want to tell her that she is not alone. I am too (I'm just trapped in a Man's body)

#3) I knew about the elephants, and as for Dogs eating their own vomit Arg...... You get a

#4) I'm finding a LOT of repetition here, mostly by Verdictis and Cyrus (this could be me - I didn't read, I scanned the last 3 pages and the pages could have 'refreashed' and I would never have known)

#5) For some reason, Racewiz has a fetish for squirrels. (With big nuts, and he didn't clarify what 'nuts' he was refering to...)

And (at the risk of making things worse)...here are a couple points I knew before I read this and felt I could give you all a slight insight to how I read this...
I define "Truth" as a subjective term. Ergo - we can have different "truths". It is Facts that I consider an 'unchanging law' (until proven otherwise).

Many horrible things have done horrible things in the name of what is "good" and "right". From individuals, to religions to corporations, that is one of the things that make us human. Like it or don't

And...As Grissom said in CSI
"I imagine the priest is a resurrection theologian as opposed to a crucifixion theologian. They believe in forgiveness instead of penance."
I'm cool with that, and I've never attacked anyone faiths/beliefs (that I know of), and Mani (and a few others) know I am not a 'believer in Jesus Christ' (yes, I used upper caps. Its a proper name~!). Mani understands that we are all free, and does not force/ram anything down anyones throat.

I accept, appreceate and welcome someone elses point of view, yet I can get a little defensive when someone starts forcing things on me.
Case in point - one of our members (name intentionally withdrawn) in a different thread seemed to instantly go on the offensive, and accuse people (yes, CDL members) of "Going to/burning in hell".
He may have had some rough times and have been persecuted in some way himself, but what right (other than a human right) allows him to make that statement with any kind of authority? That doesn't lie in his pervue. The leader of his faith (the Pope) stated that "Hell is not a physical place".

If you were to state "Pump, I'm sorry you are a non-believer, and I will pray for you you to see the light." You need to know that I don't believe in it. But I understand how important spirituality is to us all. And how important such an act is to YOU. And for you to the take time out of your day for such an act, it is something I can apprecieate, and I will thank you for it.

...e-gad. It's 12:31 AM.

I have *got* to get some sleep.
Sorry for the ramble....

~PM~

 

Religion basically states that 2+2=5. It really is a destructive mindset to believe 2+2=5. You won't pass any math classes thinking like that.

 

I tend to agree with you Kai about religion. But what I am talking about is not religion.

My point in any of these threads is that there has to be an absolute truth. Someone has to be right and someone has to be wrong. Truth then must have a source. What you believe about truth is very revealing about the source to that truth. If your truth is relative, then it is probably based upon your personal definition of it. If your truth is absolute, then it must be based on something outside of human authority. You say "Religion basically states that 2+2=5." That may very well be true, as religion is man's efforts to reach God. But a personal relationship initiated and maintained with love by God through His Son Jesus Christ towards us is a different math:
Jesus Christ + nothing = everything.
As we strive to find truth we may find ourselves standing before Truth incarnate as Pontius Pilate did and not even recognize it. "What is truth?" Pontius asked.

Indeed, what is truth? I believe I know Him.

 

Right, but truth should come with some form of proof, a universal proof that isn't based out of a religion's own teachings. How else would you accept it as truth, other than simply going by what you've been told? That is what I have been asking Verdictis. I don't disagree with the underlying reasons for which religion was put in place. However, all of the stuff about a supreme God, and the magic he performed in ages past, is it really necessary to believe there is a God? I suppose it gives comfort to people knowing *something* is watching over them, and when their loved ones die, it brings comfort to know they're living on in heaven. But is this comfort worth it? To believe such a story that a supreme being exists, so one can cope with hard times? Are we really not strong enough to stand up to reality on our own?

The facts are all laid out. If religion isn't a mechanism created by man to deal with various aspects of life, then how is it so many different religions exist, and vary so greatly? Because some issues were more important to that specific culture. Some pray to their god(s) for a good harvest, why? Because they are comforted in knowing their god(s) are helping their crops, which are likely linked with their survival. Some religions don't have an afterlife, but most do. Why? Because nobody knows what happens after death. So to cope with this, people make up their own answers, and slowly over the years, accept it as truth. Heaven/Hell was Christianity's conclusion.

The bible was written by man, not God. Scriptures were carefully chosen by the leaders and implemented in a fashion that suited their needs. Many scriptures were left out, namely the Gospel of Judas. Left out because they were not compatible with what the leaders wanted their people to believe. So why is the bible such a credible source? It's not the word of god, it's the word of man disguised as the word of god.

 

It's too late for me to adress your post properly, Kaikou. Hopefully Monday when I am off work I can do so.

All I will say now is I reject your assertion the Bible is the "word of man" instead of the Word of God. It is the inspired Word of God.

I would also submit that your definition of *religion* is pretty much correct. I would add that the term is also used by many incorrectly when discussing these issues. Faith does not equal religion. However, the *facts* as you state are all layed out but not as you suggest. You've presented a thesis without anything to validate it.

The *Reality* of God's existence is actually irrefutable. Can I possibly convince you of God's *reality* with words typed out in a online forum? Nope. Not trying to. All I can do is tell you what I know to be true from my own life experience. God is real. Jesus Christ is real. The Holy Spirit is real. I know this because I have seen and felt Their very real existence. I know this because of the tangible impact God has daily in my life. Not because I believed in God during *hard times* to get thru. In fact the opposite is true. During the days I lived a God-less, faithless life I was CONSTANTLY living in hard times. My thinking was disordered and my decision making was horrendous--I was angry all the time and my anger was easy to see in my writing as well as on my face.

Oddly enough, when I made the decision to join the Catholic Church, all the really "hard times" vanished. God is very very cool like that. When we do His Will, good things happen. Might not actually be as we expected or what we wanted....but ALWAYS GOOD

May the Peace of Our Lord be with you!

 

The stories in the Bible were written by man, not god. The CLOSEST writing comes to being the word of God, out of our three major religions, is the Koran. God > Muhammad > Scribe > Paper is a lot more reliable, if one is intent on believing a bunch of writings, than a collection of stories put together after the fact. A SELECTIVE collection of stories, even. This is one of the reasons Kai probably has such a hard time with this. Of the three books in the three major religions, the Bible is the LEAST trustworthy when it comes to validity.

You repeatedly state that you're Catholic. That, my friend, is a religion.

Going with this line of logic, the reality of the Spaghetti Monster is also irrefutable. Every day he instills on my life a sense of well-being and good Italian food.

In medicine, there's a well known term to describe something that effects you without actually having any real affect. It's known as a Placebo. However, this kind of individual help is one of the few positive things that religion does for people.

 

The Bible has gone though many, many revisions, yes, but if memory serves, I believe "The Koran" is a recent text. 500 or so years old...? Mani? Is that number about right? (That doesn't make it any worse (or better) than anything else...I'm just repeating what I've come across...)
And as for religion in general -
Because human spirituaity is so powerful and can be a tool, weapon and a guide...take a moment to place the following image in your mind --->

Lets peel the labels off of all the bottles of booze and paste them on all the hand-outs of every church of every denomination...

"Enjoy in moderation."

~PM~

 

From where I sit, your argument suggests you've not actually studied the history of the Bible in terms of its make up, how it came to be in it's present form the changes which led to the protestant Bible.

Nope. Being Catholic is not about belonging to a *religion*. Being Catholic is about Faith and living that Faith. Catholicism is a religion, to be sure, fitting the definition of the term.

Non-sensical comment ya have there Unless you can point to specific moments and days in your life where this spaghetti monster touched your life your arugment is non-sensical. I can point to specific times and dates, definite moments during the course of many days where God reveals Himself to me.

My personal well being is my responsibility. God has and continues to do wonderful things for me and my family and I am thankful.

As someone who used to work in the mental health profession I am very familiar with placebos and I must say you use of this term in this instance is improper. A placebo is prescribed either in an attempt to fool a patient in a hopeless medical situation or in studies as a control to determine a medication's usefulness in treating a medical condition.

May the Peace of Our Lord be with you!

 

omg pump...that is most brilliant thing anyone has said in this post yet...thank you... <3 mind if i use it when discussing this particular topic and other like it with my buddies?


but anywho...question verd...you say the bible is the word of god..yes it was written by man/scribes whatever....but do you honestly think..human nature being what it is...and looking at the often brutal and power mongering past the caltholic church (not putting you in this catagory..its just at that time the catholic church made ALL decisions...who lives..who dies...you knwo what i mean) they would not take a little...say..poetic licsense in writing that stuff down?

the bible was "put together" at a time that the the world needed something to hold it all together...

emperor constantine realized that in order to rule well and wisely he needed something to keep people unified...and unifying a growing movement at the time gave him support of an up and coming populace..there are questions regarding whether or not he actually put together the bible...but regardless.....particular books and scriptures and what all...i admit my ignorance of not knowing all the particular details of what all the writings are called...but there is documented proof that certain ones were left out...why? because it would have gone against what constantine or the ruling parties zeal was trying to do..unifying a state he may not have been as devoted as he pretended...but it worked for the populace.. and...altho he was "reformed" he wasnt' baptisted untill on his death bed...supposedly...

constantine was a brilliant man...he never outlawed pagenism...as he was a pagen himself before he converted...and i dont' believe he ever outlawed any other religion...most likely fed into the hate the jews philosophy due to the fact they were still pissed off about that jesus thing...funny...one man....jesus...brought about enlightenment to a whole race of men..yet destroyed the concept of another...his one act of selflessness...tainted judeism for eternity...something that is still going on today due to the actions of a select group of misguided folks...anyway..i digress...my coffee is kicking in and im starting to ramble...

constantines ideas and hopes were great...but as the catholic church prospered mans little demons..greed...hate...power started to find its way into the church...the biggest military and social power if there ever was one...used the idea of christianity to empower itself on its subjects it was meant to enlighten...who is to say there was a fella who "re-wrote" some aspects of the bible in order to fulfill his own means?

all writings..not just biblical...are subject to critisizm...we were not there...many folks need physical, tangible proof that these things happend...thru extensive research and science we have been able to prove and disprove many things that were to have happend in the history of christianity...but...we are still no closer to proving nor disproving any of the factual evidence to make the bible a "complete resource" for the past of the religions founders...

i am not delving into the spiritual part of it...because that is something that cannot be researched or proved by science...that is something i will admit i know nothing about..i am spritual...but in my own way...i use my judgement and conscience to guide me thru things...spritituality comes from within...i completly respect those that can find it in the words of the bible...because in essence...thats what it is for...just my spirituality i get from a different source...

okay...i went on far longer than i intended...sorry...i just love history and thought about constantine and then it kind of went downhill from there...

peace out

 

Does everybody know the history of the word "Pagan"
Our English word 'Pagan' is from the Latin paganus or someone who lives in a rural district, or pagus. (You know... 'country folk')
- In Latin, the word meant a villager or rustic, and was also used as an antonym for miles, or soldier.
I believe the was also used found in the 14th century as a non-Christian (sort of like 'heathen'); someone who is not a 'soldier of Christ'

~PM~

 

that does make sense...because most of the "pagans" that were persecuted during the height of the catholic church were from small rural areas...ones that hadn't been exposed..as it were to the big city life..the arm of the catholic church in the beginning wasn't quite long enough then to reach out and bring christianity to those rural..country areas...

heh...pretty cool pump...with all my reading and and basically useless info that i have accumulated over the years...i love it when i learn something new...excellent!!!

 

Pretty much hit it dead on Testflight. Thank you.

Verdictis, thanks, but I needn't debate this topic with you. I can't debate with somebody that won't listen to reason. If you're so dead set on believing what you believe that you outright refuse any alternatives, that's your choice. Close off your mind and keep believing what you've been told. You've personified why I think religion tends to have a negative effect on people.

May the reasoning of an open minded person find you some day.

 

This kind of thread makes jes....err me cry