A Commentary.

Some people just want to win. They hop in a game, beat the crap out of everyone, and leave. That's their only real goal. So they join teams they can win with. They don't care about the emotional attachments or loyalties some players want to bring. They don't want to be your friend. They're not looking for somewhere to lay down and commit to.

Then there's players like you who want to have fun and have that "we're all buddies" feeling going on. You probably want that community feeling as well. Like everyone knows everyone and we've been gaming together forever kinda of thing.

Think of them like this Mani... they're like Mercs. They have no loyalties and don't care about the cause. The only thing that concerns them is victory. I love being a merc!

 

reamember the olimpiks the US put together the dreem teem .i dident like this eather .and you wont fined many non americans that did.wuts the sport wheres the fun.i hated the eago thay had we cant be beet ..well of cors not .the litle leag games where the same this yere the scool sistem mooved thees kids around so thay could stack the teem whith the best players .and the way the kids acted when thay wone wus shameful .not there falt realy but the parents and cotches that alowd it to .its the same thing hear.its the eago ,being beet by a beter teem hapins no big deal to me but to have a teem toy with you and project this how der you play us atiatood reks the game intierly.im now ofishaly ashaymd of my self for chiring when the dreem teem wone any of thows games

 

The Old Warhorse didst speak -

It has been...and you are.
and

Litmus? WOW~! Good word~!
I have *a lot* to say on this subject. Much will strike home, and not come across nicely, so I need to organize my thoughts first, so I don't come out sounding like Lewis Farakahn.

~PM~

 

All I got for my year of service was a doughnut order, and shit from people that didn't even play the game.

I mean isn't this what your trying to do in CDL? Test and retest everyone so that you can have the best team? Pushing aside the players that have fought tooth and nail with the team for ages just to get a win? How long you have been here doesn't matter as much as how skilled you are. If you could recruit 7 5150 or Vanguard players a Dragonwolf wouldn't even be allowed on the TWL roster.

Wasn't that h0mi's vision of how to be a great team? Get all the best players from the old IX days, never practice, just show up on match day and storm up the ladder?

Funny that you would be so bothered by what your #1 in command is doing to your own team.

 

Dane,
The clan is still here, whether we play the 7 man or not. Those who wish to play on the 7 man do, those that do not, don't.

The clan is still home for those that don't. We have a competative ladder team and you put your strongest forward with backups behind. We are even now rotating in the backups so that they get more time in the leagues so they can become more skilled.

Also, if you didn't score high, your not off the team. A team works with the weaker players in the area they are weakest in to make them stronger. The test where designed to show the weakness and help place the person when he is best (I never thought I would ever be a HO, I always ran flag grap or light def. What a shock when I saw the skills of a real capper and then what I could do as a HO)

btw, we have not brought in T1 vets to make a better team, we are using those that are here and those that have joined and want to play. Sometimes change is hard for a group of people. We have a great team, a great group and a great clan full of friends. We change, we go forward, we stay CDL.
Otto

 

If your intent with that post was to hurt me, you have suceeded.

 

Actually the whole problem isn't about skilled/not skilled. The problem is/was with flame boys who like to openly come out & attack people who work their ass off (for free). Open debate is one thing. Unprovoked manic depressive critisism & hostility is quite another. Of course I don't need to throw names, do I? Openly insulting members of CDL (repeatedly, without cause) goes against CDL charter. You remember that right? A little form we all agreed to so that we could play together as a good team & get along? Everyone on this team gets along pretty good.. Except for Malone, who is always trying to sex0r me.

There has never been a problem with guys who don't have skill on this team. The team was open to ALL members of CDL when we formed it and indeed, every single player who tried out & tested to join the team is, "amazingly enough", on the team. So how is that pushing aside someone? I do not ever recal a time where Manitou told someone who tried out for this team 'no, sorry you can't play on it..' Skilled or not. Can you? No you can't..

We are *training* the players who aren't up to competition status yet. Training people is a little bit different than 'throwing them aside' IMHO and I believe everyone on this team right now understands this & is happy with how we are trying to bring them all together. On 'super stack' teams that Manitou was talking about, a player who doesn't have the right skills will NEVER EVEN HAVE A CHANCE at getting in the team to play with them. They recruit only 'the cream of the crop' & make no effort to take in struggling players & train them to excel. CDL is nothing like that. The guys on our team with the least amount of skill are playing alongside everyone else in practices & scrims.. So they can learn. And they can improve their skills.. So down the road, they too will be a great player. We don't snub our noses at the little guy who isn't up to our standards yet nor do we reject those good quality players who try & join us even if they are a little rusty.

I think you are just a little confused at how things are being done here. I'm sorry to say that it was like that shortly before you left, too. You didn't fully understand the goal & how we are trying to run things. Back then, just like now, you had a distorted & incorrect view on the goals we are trying to accomplish. If you would take a little bit of time to chill out & relax, you might be able to come back to CDL with an improved state of mind & understanding. As it stands, you are far too hostile towards CDL for reasons that don't even exist.

 

I have some words to say on this as well.

However, before this goes any further, I suggest this topic get moved to the private forum.

I'd rather not do laundry in public.

~PM~

 

My comments

Being that I am a past Member of -CDL- and I was once a Past Vice Admin of the clan, and working with h0micide and GreatDane and Manitou I think I have a right to comment on this since I have been in the mix as well during the times of old.
---------------------------------------------------------
I can understand where Dane is coming from and I know exactly h0micide intentions. In the past during my days with -CDL-, Manitou would always sit back and just let us (officers) do what we do best. Run the clan.

We had a simple goal...practise, compete, have fun. Now during that past, there were problems were some of the ideas of how we should get to the top were conflicting to the ideas of many. Some felt that it would be best to pick the best and go from there. Some felt that was fair and we shouldnt push out anyone and just concentrate more on being a family atmosphere clan.

I know Manitou during the days of T1 and back in T1 mostly we did emphasize the meaning of friendship and family and being
a clan that works together. When T1 clans ended such as KM we took in Dane and crew. I remember cause I was part of the process to help convince Dane to join CDL. WMD foldered and we tookin h0micide and some too.

Now of course when you get a clan that takes in officers of other clans, the ideas may not be the same or the motives may not be the same even though the goal was common however, that is just a way of gaming life.

Im not trying to saying that what Manitou said was a hidden dig at some of us old CDLers that have left and I not knowing the current events since I am no longer CDL and it is really none of my business, but I can understand where all parties are coming from and I know that Dane wouldn't post a reply unless he felt that strongly about his feelings and where he stands.

CDL has come a very long long way and has survived and that is good, not many clans from T1 can say that.

I do admire GreatDane for sticking up for what he believes and Dane will let you know if he feels differently.

I understand what Manitou was trying to saying and that he really doesn't intend on publicly critizing anyone, that just isn't his style he is speaking in general to the masses.


...and I know h0micide and how he likes to do things. Some may take it wrongly but he has good intentions that he feels just and stands by them. His motives may not be what others want and his manner may not be accepted by all but that is just how h0micide likes to run with the ball.

============Please note that my reply wasn't intended to flame or bash anyone down. Just that I felt complied to reply since I have worked with all parties involved.====================


Dragon Out...

 

When T2 came about, I bought the game the day it was released. I became a smurf shortly after. I had never been in competition in T1, nor had I really considered it much in T2 at that time. One clan did stand out in my eyes however - CDL- I began to consider if I wanted to join a clan and compete. I thought long and hard as I knew the level of commitment it would take. As to which clan, there was only one I was ever interested in. I really didn't think I would make it as CDL seemed l33t beyond words. I fully expected to be turned down and would not have be surprised if I had. I paced the day of the vote - I was sure I wasn't going to be accepted. When the word came that I was voted in - I was one of the finest days in my gameplaying career.
Now I stand upon the threshold of my years anniversary.I have seem my team go through incredible hardship. The painfull last days of the base 16 man. The even more painful days of the attempt to get prepared for 14 man base++. The near end of CDL itself and the less than popular decision to continue on in 7 man base++ competiion. But my team is still here. My clan survives because its members value what being CDL means.
We test ourselves to improve our skill, make us well rounded players, and place us in positions where we will do the best job for our team. I support my clan whether I play or not. If my skills aren't up to speed to play 1st string, then I'll play second string and support my team. If I get to the point where I am not good enough to play second string, then I will script, or coach, or do whatever I'm capable of to help my clan. When I become old and feable, then I will cheer from the lounge chair on the beach for my team to win and when I die I'll be buried in my snows in honor of the clan which I love dearly. I have, am, and always will be -CDL-

We see players now that have no concept of team - rather they have a concept of I. They play not for their team to win - they play so they can win. They know nothing of honor or valor or good sportmanship. Instead they satisfy their ego's by reforming groups stacked with overly skilled players and call themselves a team. The start at the bottom of the ladder and stomp their way up through struggling teams, taunting and humiliating all in their way - not for their team but for themselves. And when they they run into a team that does manages to beat them, they break up, or drop the ladder and do it all over again. No loyalty, no sense of team, just self gratification. It's sickening.

To you Dane - it does more than sting - it downright hurts. You were my clanmate and I did everything I could to let you know your friends understood your need to move on and yet still be your friend. We have never turned our backs to you even when you left the team, and you make statements like that? In your own words, if your intent was to hurt me - you did.

I love my clan. I don't care if they are first place or last. I doesn't if we play 7 man or 14 man. It is not necessary for me to play first string or even play at all for I am a Dragonwolf and I will be one until they put me in the ground with my snow skins on. I will fight the good fight for my team for as long as I am able even if I am the last man standing. I will not quit. I will not give up 'cause we go through rough times. The good of my clan far outweighs the need for personal glory. This is the way I feel and its sad to see this is not shared by more players. Let them jump from team to team, reform as much as you like. But when they are long gone and the dust settles - CDL will still be here.

 

Nice post Dragon & you raised some very interesting points. You seem to have a pretty good grasp on the situation. It reminds me of a discussion we recently had in this forum, when GD said he was quitting gaming for good, and he brought up the issue of players & teams 'winning at any cost, ignoring friends, etc'. Sadly the issue of winning vs. friendship is an illusion & has damaged CDL extensively. We have lost a score of very good people & very skilled players because CDL was not doing enough to be a winning team. Then once we do try to become a winning team, we lose even more players who are not willing to do what it takes to be a successful team in a ladder. I think we have finally found a good balance again between friendship & winning where we can have both without sacraficing either.

To me the entire debate of whether we play to win or just play to be friends is both pointless and silly. The two go hand in hand and one should never be more important than the other. Tribes 1 was a great example of this fact. Everyone was having fun & hanging out. We all knew each other very well, and all of us were close. There was a strong spirit & bond between everyone. But we were also winning, and winning big. As soon as we started to win & focus, suddenly everyone who had been away for months came back & gave it a good effort. By the time T1 was ending, we were the best IX team out there.. We had scores of players on our team all working together positively. It was a fun environment.. & most importantly we had recruits pouring into us from left & right wanting to join CDL, all were very skilled players & good competitors. It was a golden age and it came about because of both our winning spirit and our fun & friendly atmosphere. Without BOTH ELEMENTS it never would have been so good.

That's how you run a successful clan. If you ignore the aspects of winning, the community does not know you. Without the various players who play the game knowing about you, you will not ever get any new recruits. You will be a fun loving happy team and dwindle away to nothingness, because you will not get new players to replace the old ones who give up games. Without a sense of family & identity you will break up too.. Even if you want to win all the time. Because people will feel no sense of loyalty to the team. They will always be looking for the next best team to join & they will not stay in your team if it means giving up a better offer. Most importantly people will be unhappy. When people get unhappy, they leave.

CDL has seen a constant struggle ever since T2 began between 'winning' and 'family game playing'. This is what has hurt the clan more than anything else. It's been the focus of several hot debates. It's caused players on both sides, those who want to win, and those who don't care about winning, to leave. Including myself at one point in time, I was just sick & tired of losing to sub-par teams when I knew that this clan was capable of so much more. I believe that any clan who gets the proper mix of both elements can go very far. The hard part is making sure neither element goes beyond the other. I think this team has done a good job so far in that respect. It's fun for people to hang out, yet we do what is necessary to at least have a good chance to win. That is all that anyone can ask for.

PS ^ Manitou this is my answer to your original post. Don't worry about what the other teams have. & Don't sweat too much the people out there who have no respect & build super teams just to taunt other clans. It's inferior to what's going on right here.. Winning is important but it's not everything. I would rather win a lot in a good environment than win ALL the time in an environment of cheats, hacks & shallow/disrespectful players. Thx.

PS2 Yes Marsman that was an awesome post.. I still am in total awe at how totally cool your post was. It is perhaps the entire essence of CDL and the best way I have ever seen it expressed. Do 'WHATEVER IT TAKES' for your team at any cost to be successful. Amazing.

 

T1 was a generation all in itself. IX was the mod to be in. The IX community was very tight and very close knitted. We all knew each other well and we all had fun pubbing and competing. We didnt have a ladder but that really didn't bother anyone cause we had fun with our matches and scrimmages.

T2 comes out and it gives more room to improve thus making it harder on a clan to be successful but it is more provocative and more fun in that you have many ways to learn different angles of the game. Its not all just rape and score.

I think that is why teams tend to want to push more of getting better players to keep up and lose some of that fun atmosphere.
Or maybe we are all just getting too DAMN OLD.

Like I said.... -CDL- has weathered their storms well and I am sure they will continue....Sometimes the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few or the one. Its hard to cater to all personalities of clan members but that is life in the gaming world.
If one isn't happy then be happy and do what you feel is best for yourself.

The people and places my change but the memories will forever be etched into the minds eye.

Good luck all....

[TNP]Dragon+

"Chance Favors the Prepared Mind"

 

Goodbye and good luck CDL.

It's clear that I am no longer welcome here in any capacity.

 

I don't believe anyone has said that. I still consider you a friend, but if repeatedly start bonfires on the bridge, don't be surprised if it doesn't get rebuilt one day.