The end is nigh...

Ultimately it is the parents' responsibility to police their child's activities. I personally don't want the government stepping into my life and telling me what I can and can't watch, because it never stops there. I must make a moral choice based on an objective standard as to what my kid will watch/play, etc.

 

/agree

 

sad but true

Unfortunately, many parents today do not understand the difference in being a child's parent and their friend. The two positions are not always compatable, and good parenting today is critical. I love my children dearly, but often I am not their friend. A parent must be able to say "No" and mean it! I find parenting requires both emotion and thought, in balance. Not accepting responsiblity for the actions of your kids is silly. My kids make many mistakes and do things I don't agree with, but my role as parent is to both protect and direct them as they grow.

 

"My 12 year old is getting violent, and it is because of that san andreas game!"

They always pin the blame on something else. Parents don't seem to grasp the concept that when the ESRP says "M" it means 17 years and older, not 12 year olds. It is the exact same as movies. Would you take your 12 year old to see Blackhawk Down? or Dawn of the Dead? Then why buy them/let them buy violent videogames?

Parents are so lazy as of late, just because they can get away with saying "My kid cannot tell the difference between games and reality because he plays those violent videogames."

No, it is because those videogames are used as a way to entertain the kid so the parents don't have to take care of them.

 

My kids both play WoW and are younger than the rating on the box. I try to be right here with them and encourage them to learn good things like helping others, teamwork and honestly this game has brought the two of them closer like never before. They never, ever run around the neighborhood here with real guns or arrows aimed at other people, although the occasional water hose is aimed at others while washing the car or watering the yard.

My kids aren't violent.

I decided a long time ago not to shield them from the injustices in the world, although sometimes I falter in that. When my daughter was 2 we were walking in the neighborhood and found a dead bird. I pointed it out to my daughter and explained that it was dead and would never fly again like it used to, that its life was over. She asked me to get the tape and fix it because she really loved books and I would tape the pages of her books whenever they tore. She thought mom could fix anything with tape but I had to tell her that I couldn't fix this little bird no matter how much tape I used. She cried for the little bird. I held her in my arms for a bit and then we went on with our walk and enjoyed our time together. They're in public school and have to deal with many challenging situations there. I don't ever want them to be fooled into thinking life is fair or that there's nothing ugly in this world although I do attempt to ease their classroom situations and I've been known to let loose on someone who does something to harm them.

 

most parents have become lazy...they expect the school...the television...and nanny to be raising thier kids...then when they grow up and have absolulty no respect for thier parents...they blame society...yeah...and guess what...thier children will be having children soon...if they haven't already (keep in mind these are most likely 18 year olds) and since they where not raised by their parents...they will just pass their kid on to someone else and expect them to take care of it...

de-evolving...more stupid people are breeding...and stupid people beget stupid people...and so on...

its really sad...that society is becoming the scapegoat for worthless parenting...by that i mean blaming everything and everyone else for their lack of "being there" for their kids...

even tho im not a parent...this is a very emotional subject for me for some reason...

 

Responsibility

Howdy. (Here begins a 'frantic' pontification - it is a topic that gets my blood boiling, and I must type as fast as I can to get it 'all out'...)

The ratings system in the movies and games are flawed, (obviously no system is perfect), and I've always upheld that the responsibility belongs to the parent. I abhor legislative action in this regard as well. These acts not only placate the irresponsible, but it also gives them (the senators, et. al.) more 'campaign points' (i.e. media spotlight). Politicians seem to forget that the government was originally intended to assist in the govern of the people. Now, the government is in the business of keeping itself in business. Instead of racing around the headlines trying to find a cause that will allow them to "save the people from themselves" perhaps they might consider addressing and reviewing many of the obsolete laws currently in operation

(ok.... I just caught myself. Stepping off the soapbox before I go critical...)

Ahem. My apologies. Now where was I - The media forms (Movies, TV shows and & Video Games) are given a rating based upon how the individual(s) reviewing the title interpret the guidelines set by their working body (e.g. the ESRB).
Thus, you get completely different interpretations. A PG-13 movie by "Ahrnold" will have different content than one by Bill Cosby. (this is an extreme example, but one that I'm sure all can understand.)

In the gaming department, I've known titles whose sole objective is wholesale slaughter, given a 'T' rating, yet others that have a more 'Arcade' feel given an 'M'. This give the feeling of 'favoritism' as well. (One publisher and/or developer can get away with different things than another.)

However - the ESRB has promised to regulate its own reviewing guidelines and ensuring that all games are treated equally. I have no idea of this has come to pass. Perhaps Racewiz can shed some light on this (if he notices and reads this thread).

The short of it is = these systems are a fallacy so long as they are NOT enforced. How many young kids are purchasing 'M' rated games? Movies? Music CD's? (etc…)

I REFUSE to believe that any law is ABSOLUTE, but to know where you stand, and understand how you (and those around you) should deal with it, start with the simple basis and work your way up.
Responsibility.
- You don't allow minors to purchase alcohol or cigarettes, do you?
- You don’t regularly purchase these substances for them, do you?
- You don’t allow them to use these substances (and/or illegal drugs) unobserved, do you?

Do you?

~PM~

 

The ESRB is getting better on how it rates games. They used to rate gambling titles E unless they taught strategies on how to play the real world game. That game would receive an M, now they both receive an M. I still see other games that I question ratings on.

 

I think what needs to be done about this has been done for the most part. The ESRB rating system is the perfect approach -- tell the buyer right on the box what age group it is appropriate for, and let them decide based on that. Yeah, it isn't perfect yet, but it's getting better. In addition, most chain stores won't sell mature-rated games to minors without their parents' permission.

My theory is that there's a lot of uproar over this because of the perception that video games are only for kids. Some games are, but most aren't, because the largest segment of gamers are people age 25-35 (I think anyway, I can't find the article I saw this in).

 

Really? Won't sell them to kids? That's news to me.

There is some merit in what you say regarding 'only for kids'. However, it is in part the accessibility to the kids (hence my confusion on your earlier statement). The constitution allows people to publish what they want. It is the "Easter Eggs" (hidden content) that can go too far.
Both ways in fact.
1) A few years ago a developer once placed The Bible secretly into a CD the had made for a publisher. This CD was then distributed through a major food retailer (example = the CD you woud get in a box of ceral),
and
2) I also remember a Cinderrilla / Snow White game +/- 10 years ago where a 'cheat' allowed you to view her naked.
3) There are also many little Easter Eggs in every application that Microsoft offfers... etc.

Easter Eggs have been around since programing began and will continue. But it is only recently that gaming has become so popular where this is becoming noticed. Whether this latest EE was known to the Dev/Pub or just a couple of the coders....(shrugs)....I don't know.

And as for your 'age' comment, You are correct that research shows the average "gamer" is maturing. or should I say getting 'older'.


~PM~

 

Well, the game got recalled. As for the statement from the company blaming it on hackers and then finding the same content on a PS2 version...BGZ to the company.

LIES!

 

From gameindustrybiz -->
"Everyone is probably sick of hearing about the Hot Coffee debacle by now, but this week at least we got some solid answers about the controversial modification for Grand Theft Auto San Andreas, which unlocks a sexually explicit sub-game in the title.

Yes, Rockstar did create the sub-game; yes, they did ship it out, in locked form, on every disc of GTA San Andreas ever manufactured to date. Yes, you do need third party codes to unlock the game - but the damage is done. You may not have ever been intended to play this element of San Andreas, but it's there on your disc.

This is a quality assurance issue for Rockstar, more than anything else; if they decided not to ship that game, it should have been removed entirely, not just disabled. Conspiracy theorists have sprung up to suggest that this was done deliberately, in the hope of some scandalised headlines - an unlikely sequence of events, even for the publicity hungry Rockstar, and certainly one that has backfired now, if true. Take Two stands to wipe $40 million off its revenues due to this scandal, it has been revealed. This coffee is hot enough to burn.

It's not just Take Two that's been burnt, either. The ESRB, forced to drop its M-rating for the title in favour of a rare AO rating, feels that its authority has been undermined. The industry as a whole faces the wrath of vociferous critics like Hillary Clinton and Leland Yee over the affair; and retailers must now pull their stock of San Andreas from shelves and wait for Rockstar to ship out new discs without the offending content.

The repercussions, then, are severe - at least in the USA. Here in Britain, where the BBFC has already said that it's unperturbed by Hot Coffee, the whole scandal looks faintly ridiculous. To Europeans, it seems that it would take a twisted kind of morality to object to a not-very-graphic consensual sex scene between two adults characters but have no problem with drive-by shootings and crime sprees.

Could that, perhaps, be where this problem springs from? Did the creators of San Andreas, based in Scotland, insert a game which was risque but acceptable on these shores, but completely beyond the pale in the USA and elsewhere? If so, it's an object lesson not just in quality control, but in the vast importance of appreciating cultural differences when creating games.

What's fine in Europe may sink like a lead balloon in North America, and vice versa. At risk of the US press springing on the (thus far thankfully ignored) fact that GTA is a foreign-developed game, perhaps this whole sorry mess should be seen as turning the spotlight on the major cultural differences between the regions in which games are sold and developed, and the increasing importance of respecting those differences and building content that addresses them. It may seem like a time-consuming but minor thing to consider, but it's increasingly important - as a $40 million hole in Take Two's accounts and the somewhat tarnished reputation of an important industry body seem to prove."

~PM~

 

my roomate just got the game...rented it or something..anyway for the first time last night...i actually saw it played...all i can say is OMG...

 

Because, clearly, the GTA games caused city streets to be the way they are today. It is in no way a satirical representation of how it came to be that way. GTA CAUSES GANGSTAS TO BUST A CAP IN YO ASS!!

 

A few years ago when the "big debate" regarding violence on TV (making society more violent), Dick Cavett said something to the effect of "There is comedy on TV. Does that force comedy on the streets?"



~PM~

 

And that is a good quote. If some kid opens up on someone / some people for no apparent reason, it's either:
1) He's mentally unstable and should never be allowed out of his plastic bubble.
or
2) The parents of said kid should have never met and concieved that child in the attic of a barn.

I'm sorry, but blaming violence on TV and video games is rediculous. If someone can't tell the difference between a video game and real life... well that was a problem before the video game came along, the game just pointed it out. This stuff pisses me off. Either the kid is an idiot, or the parents are idiots.

 

oh i don't think video games propagate violence by anymeans...im just going back to parents whining about the games that their kids play...when they probably are the ones who gave them the money to buy it..heh...ironic don't ya think?