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VA Tech

Discussion in 'General Open/Public Discussion' started by Ground Chuk, 16 Apr 2007.


  1. Ground Chuk

    Ground Chuk BANNED

    I know you all know what happened.

    Could it have been different? Possibly. But then, some know better.

    http://www.onenewsnow.com/2007/04/va_tech_official_praised_defea.php

    How is that working for you now, Hincker?

    Bah, he's anti-gun. He doesn't care about people's safety. Just as long as he gets what he wants.

    The Second Amendment will now be under serious assault. If it goes away, watch as the others go as well.

    The First is already under attack (though they won't say it) because of the Don Imus uproar. People are already saying "We must ban these words".

    So now we will have the First and the Second under attack.

    Again, without the Second, there is NO WAY to protect the rest.

    Many years ago we, the U.S., weren't real concerned about coward attacks.

    How has that been working for us?
     
    Last edited: 16 Apr 2007
  2. Hamma

    Hamma Commanding Officer Officer

    Officer
    Agreed :ugh:

    When I heard that come up in the news conference I was thinking the same thing. Here we go again.. more restrictions as if that will help matters. :mad:

    Don't even get me started on that Imus thing.. that pisses me off to no end.
     
  3. Ground Chuk

    Ground Chuk BANNED

    Just so all know, I think it is terrible what happened there. But it could have been prevented. At least most of the deaths.

    Most of us do NOT EVER want to have to pull our weapons. But I can guarantee you we would DIE trying to save any that we could.

    The Military is comprised mostly of college aged individuals. Yet some, for some reason, don't feel college citizens are able to be responsible with a firearm. A car and a keg...no prob!!

    I can tell you that most people who carry a gun legally are VERY AWARE of the responsibility of what they are doing.

    I hear it time and time again, and I know it from experience....we act nicer. Why? Because we want NO REASON to have to pull. If we can avoid it, we will.

    You strap on a firearm and walk around in public, you will, if you have any sense of RESPONSIBILITY, be the nicest person around.

    But, dammit, if someone on that Campus had been legally armed where this criminal was, and allowed to carry on that campus, we wouldn't have had this many deaths. I GUARANTEE IT.

    Again, murder is illegal. Didn't stop this guy.

    Don't prevent law-abiding citizens from protecting themselves and others (possibly you) from those who don't follow the law.

    Oh...Gun Control does NOT equal Crime Control. Just ask England and Australia.

    Sorry for the rant, but history does repeat itself. Think about Germany and their gun confiscation, to "make everyone safe". Or just look, like I said, at England or Australia. Great crime rates, if you are into big numbers.
     
  4. Hamma

    Hamma Commanding Officer Officer

    Officer
    Not to mentioned Video Games.. countdown until they find CounterStrike installed on his computer and blame it on Video Games

    5

    4

    3

    2

    ..
     
  5. Hamma

    Hamma Commanding Officer Officer

    Officer
    Well now they are saying the kid was a "Loner" which is a recipe for people to blame everything else except maybe that the tard was mentally unstable.

    The guns he used had the serials shaved off - which means that he obviously was not a legal gun owner (as if we couldn't figure that out though)

    I predict the following:
    1. "Violent Games" will be found on his computer, and will be partially blamed.
    2. "Lax Gun Laws" (bs) will be lamed for him getting ahold of these weapons.
    3. More restrictions on Legal gun owners who obey the LAWs as the result of an action by a MENTALLY UNSTABLE CRIMINAL.

    Regardless it is a horrible tragedy. Working at a school it hits home with me, never know what could happen.
     
  6. I have a very differing point of view in regards to firearms. But I've grown up in a gunless society. Well, relatively gunless. Most of the crimes of passion here are done with knife work. Not that the end result is any different.
    But it is certainly harder to kill 32 people with a knife.
    I know very little about American politics beyond what disputes happen between our countries. I'm sure that the views on gun control are different per city let alone state.
    But I will ask this. Would it be a bad thing to ban the sale of pistols and assualt weapons to the general public altogether? Would that impinge upon your right to bear arms? Which I do know is written into your constitution.
    Perhaps many of the deaths could have been avoided.
    Leaving the pistols and heavy weapons to the police and organized crime might not be a bad thing. At least you don't have to worry as much about the loonies out there going on killing sprees.
    Just a different point of view. From a country who's gun control laws are second only to japan in their enforcement.
     
  7. DonkeySmiler

    DonkeySmiler Eater of Gnomish Persons DragonWolf

    *note this wasn't directed toward anyone, I wrote it before I had even seen any of the posts in the thread.

    What gets me are all these people that argue to "ban all guns".... what if the US did ban guns? Would guns still be produced in other countries? Yes. Would countries like Iran and North Korea (for example) go along with a US-led worldwide ban on guns? No. Would those same countries make a fortune selling guns on the black market? Yes. Would a crazy nut like the school shooter have any moral objection to buying a gun on said market? No. Would the U.S. be able to stop the market? No... well they would do about as good of a job as they do against the importation of illegal drugs :rolleyes: Which are SO hard to come by.

    This is just one of the unsurmountable blocks that makes the whole no gun idea absurd.

    Sure if I could flick a switch that would magically make all guns disappear, I would... but there is no such switch.

    It is like arguing that the answer to the problems in the middle east is unicorns.... yeah maybe they are, but there is no way it will ever be put to the test.

    *edit2 - Do I think overall crimes committed with guns would go down if the U.S. went "balls to the walls" (for lack of a better phrase) anti-gun? Yeah sure..... but like Hamma mentioned, I don't see it preventing the times when psychotic idiots want to go on a rampage. I think the reason why other countries don't have similar problems is culturally-based. The U.S. has a vastly different culture..... another example of this is obesity...... you don't see this nearly as prolific in other countries.... should we ban fast food restaurants? Actually.... that is not a bad idea :)


    Bah end rant
     
    Last edited: 17 Apr 2007
  8. Your right Donkey...hehe. That just smells of shrek :)
    Banning guns altogether isn't feasible, nor will it ever happen in your society.
    I watched a movie a while back called "thank you for smoking" Great film. Though it focused on smoking, it showed some of the crazy reasoning people do when they get into politics hehe.
    But I digress. America doesn't want gun control to the level found in Canada or Japan I'm thinking. There isn't any data I've heard of that shows violent crime drops anyway. It's just easier with a gun. Here in Canada we are not without our own Colembine. (sorry about the spelling)
     
  9. DonkeySmiler

    DonkeySmiler Eater of Gnomish Persons DragonWolf

    You Canadians need guns to fend off from all the moose attacks! :D

    I just can't believe so many people's lives have to be so tragically affected by such a crazy f-up. Reading the victim profiles fills me with so much angst (I love that word btw). From what the news is reporting, the guy showed signs that he was disturbed.... if anything, my hope is that we can take away from this the mindset that we need to take such signs seriously in the future.
     
  10. Ground Chuk

    Ground Chuk BANNED

    By banning guns completely may have made this worse. Nut job could have made a bomb, since he couldn't get a gun without some work.

    Oklahoma City ring any bells as to what BOMBS can do?

    Suicide bombers do more damage than this, if they get in a populated area.

    Or, nut job could have just used a car and started running people down. Perhaps ban cars.

    Perhaps we should just ban ANYTHING that can kill. The first thing to go would be, of course, HUMANS.

    You will hear how Britain's handgun ban has worked (usually by some Brit's who are just mad because we ran them out of our country with, imagine this, GUNS).

    Here is what is really happening

    http://observer.guardian.co.uk/crimedebate/story/0,,1056411,00.html

    http://johnrlott.tripod.com/op-eds/BritainToyGunsWSJE.html

    Someone even said this...

    I wish!!
    Besides, you'd have to have some serious money to obtain a machine gun, then lots more to even fire the thing. A .50 cal semi-automatic rifle (legal to buy) is expensive. The bullets alone cost around $1.50 or more for ONE ROUND.

    What is getting really sad is the security companies. They see this as the big "cha-ching". "They need more cameras". Like that will help. "They need more security guards". Unarmed security guards means nothing.

    The colleges HAVE security, FREE security, if they would just let the law-abiding students carry.
     
  11. Virginia Gov. Tim Kaine said he wasn't interested in arguments about gun control.

    "People who want to take this within 24 hours of the event and make it their political hobby horse to ride, I've got nothing but loathing for them," Kaine said at a Tuesday evening news conference.

    "To those who want to try to make this into some little crusade, I say: Take that elsewhere. Let this community deal with grieving individuals and be sensitive to those needs."

    im a member of NRA...but i feel the same way...
     
  12. Ground Chuk

    Ground Chuk BANNED

    That would be nice, but the Anti Second Amendment people aren't doing that.

    The longer the Pro Second people sit around, the more the Anti Second gain ground.

    Sarah Brady and her group are already sending emails.

    And they are encouraging that the email to be sent to "those you know". There is also an address to send your donation to the Brady Campaign.
     
  13. Ground Chuk

    Ground Chuk BANNED

    In fact, here is the email

    "This is a college Columbine."
    -Virginia Tech Student, Fox Television News, April 16, 2007

    Dear (name removed),

    Yesterday, we witnessed America's worst mass shooting on the campus of Virginia Tech. Thirty-three students and faculty were killed, including the gunman. At least fifteen more were wounded.

    How many deaths and injuries must we endure before our nation's elected officials act to end gun violence? We must ask our leaders: "What are you going to do about it?" What are you going to do to make our schools, workplaces, and communities safe from gun violence?

    President George W. Bush said yesterday that schools should be a place of "safety and sanctuary for every student," but he and other national leaders do nothing to ensure that safety. They provide condolences, and then do nothing to stop future tragedies.

    Eight years ago this week, we watched in horror as students at Columbine High School in Littleton, Colorado fled a mass shooting. Twelve students and one teacher were killed. Just seven months ago, five girls were gunned down in a school in Lancaster, Pennsylvania.

    These aren’t isolated incidents. February 12, 2007, Salt Lake City: A teen opens fire in a mall killing five and wounding four. On the same day in Philadelphia: Three men fatally shot and a fourth wounded at a board meeting. January 11, 2007, Indianapolis: A man shoots four fellow employees. The list goes on and on.

    There are common threads in all of these tragedies — it is much too easy for the wrong people to get high-powered, deadly weapons and our leaders fail to do anything about the problem.

    It is urgent that you email or call your elected officials today.
    They must hear that you want action to keep guns out of the wrong hands.

    Please make as many of these phone calls as you can:

    President George W. Bush 202-456-1414
    House Speaker Nancy Pelosi 202-225-0100
    Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid 202-224-5556


    The message for all three calls is simple:

    It is much too easy for the wrong people to get deadly weapons in this country. It is time for you to take steps to end gun violence to prevent tragedies like the one at Virginia Tech.
    If you can't make the calls, you can click here to send an email, which will go to the President, the Speaker, the Majority Leader, as well as your U.S. Senators and Representative. One click will email all six of them.

    The Brady Campaign is working nonstop to get the message out that there are solutions to gun violence. We can ban military-style assault weapons and high-capacity ammunition clips that make it so easy to kill quickly . . . we can require Brady background checks for all gun sales, including at gun shows . . . we can stop large-volume gun sales that supply illegal gun traffickers. These are just some of the steps we can take to make it harder for the wrong people to get guns.

    We are building a crescendo of public outcry to ensure that action is taken. We are aggressively rallying support among allies for our solutions. And we need your continued support to make it happen. Please make a contribution now to keep the momentum going. When you do, a generous donor will match your gift.

    Gun violence is a solvable problem. We know it won’t be easy. But we can make it harder for the wrong people to get their hands on guns through strong gun laws.

    It is time for our nation’s leaders have courage to say "no" to the gun lobby's mantra of any gun, anywhere, at anytime for anyone, while wrapping it in distortions about "freedom" and "liberty."

    Americans have the right to live free from the constant fear of gun violence. Please take a moment to forward this email to friends and families.

    Thank you for your support.


    Sincerely,
    Your Friends at StoptheNRA.com




    If this e-mail was forwarded to you,
    click here to sign up for your own StoptheNRA alerts.

    Click here to donate to our work to Stop the NRA.
    Right now we have a Matching Gift from an anonymous donor.
    Your gift will be worth twice as much today!

    You can also mail a check to:
    The Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence
    1225 Eye Street NW, Suite 1100
    Washington, DC 20005

    The link to what this email looks like

    http://www.bradynetwork.org/site/MessageViewer?em_id=24061.0&printer_friendly=1


    Didn't take them long to ask for donations. I haven't even asked anyone to donate, just be aware of what can happen. They even mention they have someone to match your donation! So now it is worth even more! Good grief!

    They have been losing memberships and donations. So now they have something to prop up donations, and aren't ashamed to use it. That's the Brady Way!
     
    Last edited: 17 Apr 2007
  14. all im saying is...i just wish discussion about the incident was going a different direction...how about concern for the families and friends of all involved...prayers going out to them instead of using this horrible tragic...thing...to foster more division and to use it to support a political idea...

    the whole "well they are doing it too" has a bit of a grade school mentality to it...at least thats how i see it...and that kind of attitude never solves any problems...tit for tat does not make it right one way or the other...

    again..instead of anger and frustration at..."them" how about prayers and concern for those that actually went thru the whole ordeal...

    i dunno...call me wacky....but people lined up armed and learning...its the opposite of civilization...
     
    Last edited: 17 Apr 2007
  15. Thoughts and prayers go out to the victims.

    This is what happens to students in this country. Not "Gun" related, but weapon related on the side of the "Officials".

    Now, couple this with what happened monday...where does the blame lie? Both happened in post-secondary educational institutions. Do you think low level intellect is at work here? I doubt it.

    I don't currently own any weapons, because I'm too poor. But you can bet your bottom dollar that when I do get the funds, I'll be having me a rifle and a handgun at a minimum. Am I as far out as some gun supporters are? No, but I can sure emphasize with them and I don't want my right to be stifled or taken away before the time comes for me to purchase my armament.

    I am glad that there are people like G-Chuk out there. If not him, then who?
     
  16. Manitou

    Manitou Old War Horse DragonWolf

    Amen, my brother.
     
  17. Ground Chuk

    Ground Chuk BANNED

    First off, I don't pray...not my wont. I act. Action actually works.

    I posted because I KNEW the anti-gun and biased media would jump on this like a prey animal on a wounded animal.

    And they have.

    I just watched 48 Hours. You would THINK that, with this show being a high caliber news show, that they would be unbiased. Alas, I was wrong.

    They did not ONCE explore how this could have been averted with legally armed students/teachers. They DID mention how bad guns are. They DID mention how easily (?) guns are to get. (You have to pass a background check to buy a gun, unless at a gun show which is basically like a private sale. Shooter got his gun at a gun shop.) Should we say "Well, he looks like a criminal, so maybe he should be put in jail before he actually becomes one"?

    The gun shop owner even mentioned that they turn down some who they think are suspicious, but this nut didn't seem suspicious. What more can you do?

    You sit there and pray. I will stand up and do what I can to protect our right to self-defense. Self-defense was taken from these students and instructors, yet noone seems concerned about that.

    We are all humans. We have the RIGHT to defend our life. These people, and others around the country, have that RIGHT taken away.

    BECAUSE that RIGHT has been taken away on campus, YOU are sitting back and PRAYING.

    Don't say I am doing something wrong.
     
    Last edited: 17 Apr 2007
  18. Ground Chuk

    Ground Chuk BANNED

    Warchilde...I appreciate the support. Thank you!
     
  19. Sentrosi

    Sentrosi Protocol Officer Officer

    Officer
    From another forum I frequent. This guy pretty much says exactly what I am feeling right now.

    So, what would be a good handgun to walk around Albany with? And for those who think I'm joking; I'm not.
     
  20. Hamma

    Hamma Commanding Officer Officer

    Officer
    That is an awesome post Sent :eek:

    I think its due time to start a Self Defense thread where we all have a Q&A with Ground Chuk about weaponry, I too have been considering this for some time.

    Test I agree with you to a point. More than anything I am saddened that it comes down to what it has. We should be thinking about these folks who were killed, and honoring their memory.

    Problem is that not everyone thinks that so while people are doing the right thing, they are getting trampled over by idiots with agendas. Sadly, we are already seeing that happen less than 2 days later.
     

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