Absolutely PATHETIC

Zabdiel,

I really don't want to get into a religious debate. But at the same time, Christianity has only been around for 2000 years. Hinduism is 4000 years old. The human race reaches back well beyond both of those religions. If by prophecy you refer to the Bible. Well the Bible, as all Christian faiths know of it today, was put together by the Roman Catholic church 500 years after Jesus' life and death.

The Bible is second hand (at best) account of what happened. As we know, all humans are falable, so there is no way the Bible can be perfect. The Koran is the exact written word of God according to Islam. God spoke to Mohammad, Mohammad dictated to a scribe, and the scribe wrote down what Mohammad said. Arguable, the Koran is the holiest of the holy books.

There are 1 Billion+ Christians in this world, 1Billion+ Muslims, 700 million+ Hindus, and 200million+ Buddhists. (Those numbers are from memory, please don't make me look it up, you get the general idea). Any way you slice that pie, if there is only one right answer, there are a lot of people burning in the appopriate hell right now.

 

Rayzer, to avoid the risk of turning this into a debate on beliefs, I could answer each point you brought up with what I think you would find to be a satisfactory and intelligent answer.

But I won't here - if you want, I can PM my answers to you, or anyone else who has the same questions. Just let me know.

 

I plan to rot in the ground when I die. Maybe I can have a tree grow out of my chest.

 

Mani,

You're right. I honestly don't want to turn it into a debate. I'm not trying to say who's right or wrong. Quite the opposite actually. I believe that all faiths have value as long as you're working toward the betterment of yourself and your fellow man. It's the foreceful imposition of those faiths on others that causes the issue.

As Sky mentioned elsewhere, it would be nice if humans would occasionaly learn from the mistakes of our ancestors.

I wasn't trying to put down Christianity, I was simply trying to point out that there are other alternatives that just as many, if not more, people believe in with their hearts and their souls.

As for me, I'm more into getting views on different religions than definative answers. Sorry to keep going on and on about this stuff. Spirituality, faith, and religion has always been a big area of interest for me, you just happened to catch me when my interest has been peeked again

Enjoy your faith, use it to make your life and the lives of others better while we are here on Earth. That is the foundation of most religions. I really enjoy talking about different religions and how they impact people lives. I even understand the Christian need to "save" other people. It is just a point I happen to disagree with.

Anywho, if anyone wants to chat about religions, I'm open to it any time. I really do enjoy it.

I apologize if anyone thinks I'm knocking their faith. I'm not, although I can understand how it can come off that way.

 

Orson Scott Card fan?

 

Rayzer,
Thank you for the polite reply. I, like Mani, am able to present the Truth and be able to back it up without using the Bible. Christianity has its roots dating back 6000 years. Please feel free to PM me anytime-I wouldn't want to upset anyone. =)

 

I preper the philosophy that you only have to respect that someone else is allowed to have a different belief.. not so much that you have to respect their belief. The same principle works for freedom of speech.

 

I respect anyone's right to have a different belief. Let me explain:

Say we are at the top of a tall building. The building has no elevator and we must get down somehow. I tell you that I know the way down. You say you know a way down as well. I ask you what you believe to be the way down and you say by jumping. I agree it will get you down, but at what cost? I explain my belief that to get down you must use the stairs. We both have a "belief system", but which one is going to safely get you to the ground? Taking the stairs will grant you safe passage to our goal of getting to the ground. It becomes the "right" way to descend from the top of the building because it is the only way to safely accomplish this.

The person who believes that they can jump down would maybe call the other person narrow minded for believing in only one way.

I say you can be narrow minded when you are right.

This is a way of understanding someone who firmly believes what they believe and can be so dogmatic about it. The next step in this would be to examine "why" they so dogmatically believe what they believe.

The application here could be Christiaity in it's truest sense - not the bloated and pious religion we all agree is so offensive.

Food for thought.

 

The only difference being that sprituality, faith, and religion are far more subjective matters. You could actually show somebody that the stairs will get you down without killing you. There's physical evidence. Not matter which faith you practice, in the end, it comes down to exactly that, faith.

So even though you believe with all your being that you are right, and you can explain to someone why you believe this way, in the end, they have to find the faith inside themselves to believe the same you do with no proof that you are truely correct.

So going back to your building example. There could be a third person who says, there's this really long ladder over here, we could just climb down that. The stairs and the ladder will both get you to the ground safely, which would be the "right" way down?

 

Exactly. The spiritual questions are not something that could be proven definitively. So what we do is make the best possible case for the belief system you think is the right one. Christianity, while sometimes accused of being a "blind faith" in actuality is not. The evidence for the claims of Christ are abundant.

When we begin to look at what direction our faith (or belief system) will take us in, we need to intelligently consider the claims of the Person that faith is based upon and also the evidence that supports that Person and what and who they claim to be. Science, while typically considered to be separate from Christianity, is in fact not. Science is a great way to attempt to substantiate the claims of the particular faith one is investigating. Of course, nobody can prove scientifically the past, since historical science is not repeatable. I can't positively prove that God created the universe and everything in it in six literal days. I can only take observational science and try to confirm what I see around me now and see if it supports whatever view I hold to be true. Same goes for evolution - I cannot prove that it is in fact the truth because I cannot repeat it.

The bottom line is, whatever belief system you hold to be true had best be one you have investigated carefully. It is insane to possibly be facing eternity unprepared in whatever sense. We don't get up every day not preparing for that day so why go through life not preparing for the inevitable death that is to come. Do the research - see what belief system is best substantiated by the claims of it's originator and it's writings. Don't allow others to dictate what you believe - learn it for yourself by honest inquiry.

I did and it changed my life.

 

Well said Mani, We were given free will for a reason.

 

Mani, I see what you're saying and understand it. This is just one of those fundamental differences of opinion. I simply believe that people should find the belief sytem that means the most to them, affects them them most, and improves their life and the lives of those around them.

Whether someone faith is "right" does not play into the equasion. I simply do not believe that one religious belief is correct and the others therefore have to be incorrect.

....I was going to expound further, but I really don't have the time and everything I tried to comeup with to sum it up, kept taking me into new points

Mebbe later.

 

My half a cent

You hate quite a few fellow CDL here then...

It's a problem of point of view. You see it as forcing, which in some cases it can be. I see it as trying to get you through to the truth.

You've got your sources a bit mixed up here my friend. Man didn't come up with it.

I fall in with Pal, Zab, and Mani on this one. I'm a Jesus Freak as well. The biggest problem I see that causes these debates is the fact that many people choose to judge a 'religion' based on the people that are most visible, rather then any of the principles. Would you judge Germans in general based on the actions of Hitler? Do you judge males based on the actions of Timothy McVeigh? Do you hate dogs because of one you met when you were a kid?

I don't blame any specific individual, I see this as a common thing among all people. Alot of people in the US are doing the same thing against anyone who looks middle-eastern. Judging them based on the actions of a few. It's never a matter of people disliking what they don't know in my opinion, its disliking a skewed version of the truth brought about by a visible few that completely mis-represent the majority.

 

It might seem free, but don't forget to read the fine print. <3

 

That's the part most people don't take the time to read.

 

i wanna be a buddhist...but i don't have the patience...seems like a pretty peacefull group...they just kinda walk around in robes smiling...yeah yeah...so you have an occasional one setting himself on fire...and sure...the smell of burning human flesh does tend to stick around in nostrils for a while...but thats not really hurting anyone is it? nothing a few thousand insense and candles couldn't take care of....*shrug*