Every great nation fails, is America??

Forget which book it was that said, basically, that the only people you can govern are those that are breaking the law. You, as a governement, have no power over law abiding citizens - so part of your goal, to enforce your will, is to make sure that everyone isn't a law abiding citizen...

... Hope I did the book justice on that paraphrase. Eerily accruate when you think it through.

Anyway, back on topic, is the problem that we "allow illegal immigrants" to work and not pay taxes, or is it that the corporations need to be penalized for not properly taking out taxes, paying for labor, etc.?

Also, in the "what if" category; If my company is based in massachusetts but I commute from New Hampshire, do I end up paying both states taxes? What would happen if I commuted from Canada to the US? *curious*

-qor72

 

I think that it is both + more. Illegal immigrants should not only not be allowed to work and not pay taxes, they should not be given the opportunity to work here in the states as they have no legal right to reside here, regardless of employement opportunities or taxes paid.

If we allowed illegal immigrants to remain in the US, continue working, pay taxes, but not legalize/naturalize them, then we would have a system of government that was not serving its citizens, but rather those persons paying taxes to said government. It is for and by the people of the United States - its citizens - that the government exists and functions. Right? If the government started providing protections for non-citizen tax payers that resided within the borders of our nation... I don't know. The government has through tarriffs collected a kind of tax from non-citizens, but that is from trade and from non-residents. I'm am not well versed enough in US political theory or US legal code to provide a thorough or accurate response to what such a situation might pose. This is actually, if veiwed strictly on the basis of a taxable population, a rather convuluted subject, as the federal income tax is something of a nefarious beast by itself. The income tax system is not the first our nation has had, and in fact previous income tax systems have been deemed "unconstitutional" by the supreme court. What's that say about the current system? And if we based the legality of residency upon taxation through a system that could be considered unconstitutional - where does that leave us?

All of that to say - the rights of an individual to reside in the United States, should NOT be based solely on their ability to pay taxes. While some of the harm done by illegal immigration is directly related to their lack of tax paying (taking from systems that they don't pay into) it is the question of citizenship that is critical.

As for companies and corporations that hire illegal immigrants, I do agree that the penalties required by law should be strictly enforced. They are not. I have 3 cousins that run a business out of NC. It is both targeted at and employes persons of hispanic makeup. Many of their employees are illegal - and they know it. They may bring in a fake SS card, as well as other ID, but they know that 99.9% of their employees and most of the people that buy their products are not citizens of the US. Their business is small fries compared to many, but I do believe that the corporate interests in the US have a definate impact on our policy, and by not applying the established penalties on those companies, the government simply encourages them and grants them more power.

 

I'm not an accountant, so you may want to consult one for an authoritative answer. Although this likely varies from state to state, I think what usually happens is that you're responsible for taxes only in the state you live in. Of course, if every state respected the commerce clause of the constitution, you wouldn't be responsible for taxes in either state, as living in one state and working in another would probably be considered interstate commerce. Of course, I'm not a tax lawyer either...

 

A House bill, passed in December has made it a felony either to enter the US without official permission, or to overstay a visa. Under the House bill an estimated 11 million illegal immigrants could face penalties of up to a year and a day in prison.

And...what does the government intend to do?
Place them in prision? Deportation?
I guess we'll see what transpires...

~PM~

 

Thomas Jefferson was an amazing man. Of all the Founding Fathers, I think his vision for America was the best (sadly, we ended up with Alexander Hamilton's vision, but that's a topic for another time).

Some of my favorite Jefferson quotes:

 

Agreed, Symen!!! That America would have such incredible men alive today to guide us aright once more.

 

If memory serves Jefferson also invented the swivel chair and the murphy bed...?

~PM~

 

Interesting development - comments?

Fence

 

If the land owners agree its their right to do so. I say go for it. It'll just channel the groups coming from mexico into other areas. That should make it a little easier for board police to stop them.

 

Interesting.
I too say let them build the fence. (however they want to make it - complete with a electricity, razor wire, etc...)



Although on a side note, I am reminded of the following definition of the word Boundary -

BOUNDARY: (n) In geographical terms, it is an imaginary line separating the imaginary rights of one individual from the imaginary rights of another.

~PM~

 

...automated sentry tasers....j/k

Very interesting indeed. SOMETHING needs to be done. If GW won't act - for whatever reason - someone should.

 

Seems you actually get my point according to this.

We are regulated to just "plain people" by what you have just said. We aren't really Americans, as we aren't part of the "hyphenated" bunch. I guess women without hyphenated last names "aren't REALLY women".

If all of us "Caucasions" went somewhere else and built a new country and society, eventually others would come. Then they would whine because no where is there a box to mark "African-American-Caucasion" or what not.

Then people would get soft and start adding those, and the rest of us would be asked to check the "Caucasion" box...again. And you all would be saying how Caucasion you really are.

Get off the hyphenated crap. If you are here LEGALLY, then you are an American, by law. I find it stupid to say "I'm more than just American, I'm _____-American". Like you're better than a person who simply states "I'm an American". Is your identity crises so bad you need this reminder?

Basically, with the hyphenation you are saying "I'm stuck here in America, so I hyphenate to let you know". Isn't that generally why women use hyphenated last names...to let us all know who they REALLY are? Not really proud to use the last part of the name, so they stick their maiden names in front? Seems that way to me. So basically you are a ______ before you are an American.

I would go on about some more, but time to have fun else where.

Isn't life grand?!!

Ohhh! Gave me an idea!!

I'm a Human Animal-American!!! There we go!!! Yay for me!!! I'm hyphenated!

 

The use of "-American" has nothing to do with patriotism, it is politically correctness of classifying someone's "race." Instead of calling them "black" or "Indian" (as some may be offended by such terms) they are "African-American" and "Native-American."

Race is asking what your geographic lineage is, not your current nationality or what nation you are loyal to.

 

Yet we try so hard not to let race be a part of anything. Or anything race related.

"Don't judge me for my race, yet you should know I'm a(n) ______-American".

What is Caucasion? What is that lineage?

Makes no sense.

 

Really, what this post is about is being a LEGAL American.

Some say "Well, if they've been here long enough, they are American".

Others say "Well, they made it here, they are American".

Yet these people overlook that they are here ILLEGALLY.

If I kill people over a few years time, then can I be a "Legal Murderer"? With no worry about Law?

If I run enough red lights, can I be a "Legal Red Light Runner", and explain that to the cops and they say "Opps, sorry. Continue on your way"?

If I never pay taxes, as a LEGAL American, and when they audit me, I say "Hey, I haven't been doing it for years, you can't charge me now" and expect that to stand?

When do Laws matter then?

If I've been doing your underage daughter for two years....does that make me free and clear?

Think about what the LAWS are, before you state what is right or wrong....because believe me...some people are lucky I'm a LAW ABIDING CITIZEN.

 

Which is why I consider us all one people. I don't see the point of intentionally separating someone due to the amount of Melanin in their skin.

Nationally, however, is how we separate ourselves based upon a broad definition of loyalty. Although a definitive answer could be used, over the years, more and more Laws have been created and have unfortunately buried many items I would consider common sense items (and occasionally ‘justice’ has been buried as well) because of exploitation. Due to the design of grammatical complexities, many people tend to exploit the law - intentionally. Which fine as challenge and testing makes us strong, but remember – the police are not here to protect and serve YOU – their duty is to uphold the law. Ergo – if someone robs/attacks you, it is the duty of the police to collect them. Not because they did you wrong, because they “broke the law”.

And Chuck, I believe you’re only seeing half the argument here. The legality of whether someone is a citizen or not - has been discussed.

It would seem that someone can have an "American heart" (spirit), but not be a legal American. (And I would wager that goes with any country really).

This thread is another example regarding the dichotomies of us humans.

~PM~

 

Chuck,

You may think of yourself as just American, but you look like an Asshole-American from where I'm standing.