Michael J. Fox

Rush was right when he speculated Fox was either acting (he wasn't) or that he was off his meds (he was). Fox has admitted to going off his meds before testifying before Congress and such so folks can see the real effects of his illness.

Also, the issue isn't stem cell research per se. It's about cloning AND embryonic stem cell research: which has yet to actually provide any assistance to anyone where adult stem cells have

Being sick doesn't automatically give you a free pass from scrutiny and being questioned when you insert your illness and personage into the political process.

 

Not sure what you're getting at with that, but ok.

So where does it stop? After stem cells do we start harvesting organs from a developing fetus to supplant organ donations and transplants? How long until some segment of humanity are referred to and treated as cattle?

Absolutely disgusting that an unmedicated condition is being used to pull at the heartstrings of a population in order to further a political agenda.

 

Wouldn't stem cell research allow for the growing of organs so that we wouldn't have to rely on donations and/or harvesting them?

 

This is a song that Dream Theater put out on the 'Six Degrees of Inner Turbulance' album. If anyone wants to hear it, I can send it to you. The parts in quotes are various sound bites from different sources.

-----------------------------------------------

The Great Debate

[also known as "Conflict At Ground Zero"]
[music by Myung, Petrucci, Portnoy, Rudess]
[lyrics by John Petrucci]

"A gallop snapshot poll taken immediately after President Bush's speach on
funding embryonic stem cell research last night shows that half of Americans
approve of his decision, 25% do not, and still another 25% are not sure what
to think."

"Most people don't even know what stem cells are."

"Who is going to scream the loudest? Will it be the right-to-lifers or will
it be the scientists? And now what is going to happen is there will be a
tremendous amount of lobbying in Washington, D.C.: scientists,
entertainers, people who want to see this research - will be coming forth."

"I am concerned about it. Christopher Reeves is concerned about it.
Everyone is concerned about it. The big question is do the ends justify
the means? When we talk about research, yes, we can cure a lot of things...
speculatively. But, where is the proof?"

"These developing human beings that you are talking about, these embryos,
were produced in an artificial, scientific environment. In vitro
fertilization is not God's will."

"That doesn't make them any less human, though, after that happens."

"We are on a road where we really don't know where we are going as far as
what's next. We are talking about harvesting embryos. We are talking about
this, we are talking about that, but what is the cost?"

"How could we possibly abandon the research?"

"That is right. That is the old question? If you think the research is good
then you may not have a problem with it. It is only if you think the
research is questionable that you get defensive about it. (You do have time
to research these embryos later if we choose to do so. While people are
suffering, we are not truly certain that this will provide a cure.)"

"And there was a great outrage in the conservative churches... You cannot
use developing humans... At that point in time they turn into humans."

"I feel that abandoning this research could be a mistake. Researching this
may allow us to save other lives or at least to improve the quality of
lives."

"We do not have the answers, yet. We need to put the money where we will get
those answers in the future. Listen, we are out of time."

What if someone said
Promise lies ahead
Hopes are high in certain scientific circles
Life won't have to end
You could walk again

What if someone said
Problems lie ahead
They've uncovered something highly controversial
The right to life is strong
Can't you see it's wrong

Humankind has reached a turning point
Poised for conflict at ground zero
Ready for a war
Do we look to our unearthly guide
Or to white coat heroes
Searching for a cure

Turn to the light
Don't be frightened of the shadows it creates
Turn to the light
Turning away would be a terrible mistake

Anarchistic moral vision
Industries of death
Facing violent opposition
Unmolested breathe

Ethic inquisitions breed
Antagonistic views
Right wing sound bite premonitions
In a labyrinth of rules

Are you justified
Are you justified
Are you justified
Justified in taking
Life to save life
Life to save life
Taking life to save life

This embryonic clay
Wrapped in fierce debate
Would be thrown away
Or otherwise discarded

Some of us believe
It may hold the key
To treatment of disease
And secrets highly guarded

Are you justified
Are you justified
Are you justified
Justified in taking
Life to save life
Life to save life
Life to save life

Human kind has reached a turning point
Poised for conflict at ground zero
Ready for a war
Do we look to our unearthly guide
Or to white coat heroes

Turn to the light
Don't be frightened of the shadows it creates
Turn to the light
Turning away would be a terrible mistake

We're reaching
But have we gone too far

Harvesting existence
Only to destroy
Carelessly together
We are sliding

Someone else's future
Four days frozen still
Someone else's fate
We are deciding

Miracle potential
Sanctity of life
Faced against each other
We're divided

Should we push the boundaries
Or should we condemn
Moral guilt and science
Have collided

Turn to the light
We defy our own mortality these days
Turn to the light
Pay attention to the questions we have raised

"One of the big questions that still remains for me, though, is that all of
these embryos that are sent or will be discarded - is this worse than just
throwing those away?"

"You do not know that all of these will be discarded. All of a sudden you
say which ones will be discarded. And all of sudden you have people being
solicited for parts of their anatomy. Then they harvest parts of people's
bodies. That is how it starts."

"People are not soliciting; there are fertility clinics that have extra
embryos."

"The research is a scientific advancement. I know we are going down a road
that we may not know where we end, but that is exactly what science is all
about. I am very sorry, but I do feel sympathy for those whose spines have
been severed... There is a possibility that we might cure them. I am
concerned about a cure for juvenile diabetes and if these types of
scientific advancement can cure these diseases, then quite candidly I think
there ought to be at least what President Bush has proposed: some limited
research."

"Stem cells come from developing human beings and they should not be
experimented on that doesn't make sense or that is unethical, but at the
same time there is great promise."

"I have a 28-year old son who is paraplegic. And if there is a small
chance that my son can be able to have feeling and be able to walk then I am
all for it."

"Human beings have been evolving for 10's of thousands of years and we are
just injecting cells from embryos into people's brains. How do we come to
do something like that?"

 

Isn't that the truth...

 

Like I said, it depends on your views. Someone like Joseph Mengele is a plague upon the Earth. Taking a life outside the womb is considered murder. There is no justification for genocide. But there is justification for taking someones umbilical cord and using it for research because it contains tons of stem cells. There is justification for someone willingly participating in a study by giving their zygotes, which are rich in stem cells. I understand what you meant, but try not to use a bad example. Apples and oranges.

 

thing is...you can't fight human nature...and one thing that motivates human nature is greed...greed comes in all forms...scientific recognition...political recognition...star status...and worst of all financial recognition...everything that can be a possible boon to our lives also will carry the taint of being a device to pursue greed in one way or another...nothing in this world is sacred anymore...anything and everything has a price..and there are people willing to pay any price no matter how steep...we as a country have tried to regulate things to keep this from happening..unfortunatly we have regulated ourselves to death...literally...we have lost our humanity and our ability to see beyond the greed and think there would be only one outcome on this topic...but that again..comes from knowing our past...this country was made on men making choices and taking chances that the decisions they made would benefit us as a society and the race of men overall...

we are fools to think that stem cell research would only lead to bad things...yet we are also fools to think that it would be devoid of the greed of our own nature...

as far as an unmedicated condition...perhaps he would not have to be medicated if stem cell research was pursued...but then again...who would listen to him? who would pay attention to him if there was no evidence of what he goes thru? M.J fox is fortunate...he can afford his medical bills...what about mary jo in some trailer in kansas who is not so lucky...would you listen to her because she can't afford her condition? would they allow some poor girl wracked with this dieses to address congress...without her drugs..not because she chose to not take them...but because she cannot afford to take them...and dont' give me any crap about any kind of govt funding...because we all know that is bullshit...a person cannot live on the amount of money provided thru govt programs and afford the high cost of medical care in the world today...i dont' care what anyone says..ive witnessed it...ive been thru it..and its a joke to make people think that our govt actually cares....buuuut..thats another topic for another discussion..hehe

 

The objective of the SS physician's research was to improve medical care and equipment available to the German people. I don't advocate their methods, this is just a statement of their objectives.

So expending lives to further mankind is justifiable, but taking life outside the womb is not. That seems fairly contradictory. This is not a debate about the ethics of or justification for abortion, before you go off on that tangent.

Agreed, and this has been done for almost 20 years to fight things like leukemia. However, you should note that umbilical stem cells are specialized to the point they only regenerate blood tissue.

How is this in any way ethical? Creating the basis for a new human being with the intent to kill it so it can be picked apart under a microscope? Get real.

Its not a bad example just because you don't like the comparison. The likeness is the shared justification, not the method.

 

DING DING DING!!!!! ladies and gentlemen...we have a winner!!!!

 

Was watching CBS Evening News and Katie Corric (sp) interviewed M.J. Fox. The incident that Rush was commenting about, Fox said he WAS medicated. In fact, he said he was OVER medicated.

He said that there is know way to determine what he will be doing at any time. What was going on was BECAUSE of his medication.

During the interview, he was moving about, yet he was still medicated. Simply put, his condition is getting worse.

I'm not going to get into the stem cell debate, but anyone who accuses Michael J. Fox of "grandstanding" or whatever is an idiot.

Now, making fun of him for humor, I'm sure Fox would laugh.

But saying he isn't being sincere...that's a different story.

There is a difference between the two.

Michael J. Fox is an upstanding individual. He doesn't deserve being accused of "acting" his disease.

Besides, I'm sure Rush would be doing his own drugs, if it were legal, or he was sure he wouldn't get caught again.

 

For anyone interested, M.J. Fox's interview with Katie is on Entertainment Tonight. The show is on now, but Fox isn't yet.

edit...well, isn't that typical of ET. Say one thing, do something different. Now I remember why I don't watch it.