Theres no appropriate title

If you hate laughing at the Bible, then why would you do it????

 

I am to page 11 now of the writing for you guys. It's getting late, and I gotta work in the morning early. I will continue untill it is complete enough to post. It may take me another day or two though.

I know you guys & gals are dying to pour gasoline all over it and set it on fire, but you will have to wait another day or so.

Hope everyone has a good night =)

 

I beginning to take a liking to you Hamma =)

 

Zab has yet to deal with the Adam and Eve quandry....Mani tried, but it still doesn't make sense.

How can the FIRST two people have kids, where one kills the other, gets banished to the desert, then HAS KIDS OF HIS OWN?

And the statement..."either his sister or a close cousin"???? WHAT COUSIN??? Is there actually another couple? Who are they? WHY aren't they mentioned?

Was the person writing this smoking the REAL crack?? And where can one get this REAL crack? Sounds damn good!!

If believing in the WHOLE thing means believeing Adam and Eve were first, had kids, one killed the other, got banished to the desert, then had sex with someone else...a sister or cousin....the cousin part just makes it completely ridiculous...but his sister even...who would have been much younger, unless Cain "Hung out side the banned area, stalking his ex family". No mention of that. That alone makes me say WTF????

And we won't go into who started sacrifices, and who now takes the brunt of it!

 

Why wouldn't man just make up the answers instead of making up God.
Seems like that would have created more questions

 

(Zab has yet to deal with the Adam and Eve quandry....Mani tried, but it still doesn't make sense.)

I never said that I would. Mani gave you an answer to your question and you just refuse to accept the answer. I can't help you understand if your unwilling to try.

 

The answer doesn't make sense.

Actually READ what I have to say.

But then that is the way, isn't it..."dodge it if you can't answer...they won't notice". PPFPFFPTTTT Sorry, that don't work.

We NOTICE your tactics! Why? Because we know you can't answer it, and expect such things.

If you aren't going to actually read my post, then please, don't reply.

 

I also Have to comment on this. He quoted MY ENTIRE POST, and only commented on the part that had the least relevancy to the whole thing!

Have you ever heard the phrase "I hate to say I told you so" ?

I was implying the same thing Goddamnit! Don't be ignorant!

 

Want to throw another wrench into the whole "Adam and Eve controversy" ?

According to what is written, we are all descendant from Adam and Eve, correct?

What about Noah?

Didn't God kill EVERYONE and EVERYTHING on the Planet except for Noah, his family, and the beasts on the Arc?

If that's the case, then we are all descendant from Noah


As for Why wouldn't man just make up the answers instead of making up God. Seems like that would have created more questions , it's very common in history for cultures to label things that they do not understand as Gods. Take the Romans and the Greeks for example. Look at all of the Gods they used to explain things. Like Aries, and Mars. The Gods of War. Who rode their Firey Chariots across the sky, day after day. You know... Like the SUN.


Here's what I think:
There is some sort of Higher power out there.
Is it the God that everyone thinks it is? No.
Is it Aliens? Maybe.
Is He/She/They still around watching our every move? Probably not.
More than likely, this higher power found or created the Earth shortly after the whole "Bang theory".
They manipulated what they found/created. i.e. Natural Selection, Evolution, Abiogenesis.
Then they washed their hands (in a really big sink, with cosmic soap.. antibacterial of course) and walked away saying, "There ya go. Don't screw it up! There's no save games in this one"

Lets face it people. We are a science experiment. We're the Mold culture that is left growing in the fridge for a REALLY REALLY Long time to see what it turns into.

 

Ok I glanced through all these pages and religious discussion, especially people who base their facts on religion, enrage cyrus.

Adam and Eve:
- Where the fuck are the dinosaurs in the bible from adam and eve On.
- If two people, made in the same image, were the origional two people on the planet, why are there three distinct skeletons and totally different looks. That tower explains the differences in speech, I guess, but what explains the difference between an American Indian and some random guy from Taiwan.

Noah
- The flood, in the bible, certainly could have happened. It states that the waters covered the whole world, leaving only Noah's family and two of each animal alive. ... but really.. how big was 'the whole world' back then? The whole of the current middle east?
- Wasn't the culture then a hashish smoking group? A talking burning bush? What do you think the first person he told about that thought?

The New Testament and Christianity In General
If you really want to get down to it, christianity holds the least water when compared to islam and judeism. Why would you trust a book, full of third party knowledge, that was put together 500 years after the fact by some higher ups in society? The Koran, supposedly, went directly from gods mouth, to Mohommad to his scribe to the paper.. If I trusted religion, that would be the one that seemed the most trustable.

Religion and it's Societal Effects
Someone a few pages back disagreed that religion and law should be kept seperate and mentioned something about morality and values. I absolutely hate religion.. I've seriously considered buying a goat, slaughtering it one morning when some fanatics come to my door.. stripping down naked and rolling in the blood and then going to the door and asking them if they'd like to join me. People who know me well but don't know my stance on religion think I am a fairly devout christian because of my moral beliefs and values system.

Suggesting that you need religion for moral codes is rediculous and ignorant. Organized religion as NO good effect on society. You can go about your beliefs in your own home with your own spirituality.. that's perfectly fine.. you don't need a massive group of people to gain what you get from church. However, how many people die due to killing in the name of a god? How many horrible things, throughout all of history, have happened because of religion? Sure, wars and such will continue to happen, but at least it won't be for some retarded, faith-based reason.

And, again, on that note... how would religion and law mixed be a good thing? Have you not been paying attention to the religion-run governments in the middle east? What do they teach you?

Organized religion, on the massive scale, should be done away with globally.. you're free to practice your faith and beliefs privately or with small groups, but fuck controlling, overly powerful, religious groups.

 

Actually I was pretty much done with the debate over abortion and absolute objective truth. It was an enjoyable debate, and done with civility and good points/counter-points.

This thread has followed another trail, which, actually is a fun one as well, but I had not gotten fully involved in it as yet. But since Chuk seems to think I was avoiding his question, I will step up to the plate, as it were, and answer his questions.

Chuk, you said -
"How can the FIRST two people have kids, where one kills the other, gets banished to the desert, then HAS KIDS OF HIS OWN?

And the statement..."either his sister or a close cousin"???? WHAT COUSIN??? Is there actually another couple? Who are they? WHY aren't they mentioned?"
You actually said more, but I want to handle the main question first. (In dealing with these questions I will use more of a teaching form rather than a philosophical form.)

The Bible clearly states they had other children. Let me set the scene. If your axiom (presupposition) is to take the Bible as history then you must accept the fact that it is a revelation from the Creator of the universe to His creation. Now I am not saying you must take this axiom, but I choose to start from this point because I feel it best answers the questions when compared with evolution. Here we have two created humans whoa re perfect in every way genetically. The Fall occurs due to a choice to disobey God. The consequence of their disobedience is death. Not immediate death but the entrance of death into the world. But they are still perfect in genetics. They begin to have children, the first two being Cain and Abel. They don't stop there, because being perfect genetically would assume they are very fertile and can conceive as soon as Eve is capable. I have some friends that are in their 40s - they have 8 or 9 kids. If you believe what the Bible teaches, and I do, you will see that humans at that time lived to be nearly 1000 years old, normally 800 to 900 years. You do the math - how many kids do you think they could punch out in that time? And assuming the kids can have kids by the time they are (a conservative figure) 20, do you think that maybe there are a number of humans running around by the time Cain turns 200? (This number is arbitrary and used for example only. The Bible doesn't specify how old Cain was when he found his wife and married.) I think plenty.

As for the different "races" - I don't believe in different "races". I think there is only the human race and the differences we see are simply different ways the human body has adapted to its environment. How do we explain the wide-spread human family all throughout the world? Arglaar touched on it by bringing up Noah and the flood. Again, I am using the Bible as my axiom and I believe there was a global flood. I think the facts support that by the millions and millions of dead things laid down by water in rock layers all over the world. Remember, the world was probably very different before the flood, but we can't know for sure because we weren't there. (I think it is impossible to find the Garden of Eden because it was destroyed along with everything else during the Flood. The whole surface of the earth was radically changed during this flood by massive tectonic and volcanic activity, as well as the terrible flood damage done - see for example the tsunami damage we witnessed recently and that was minor compared to a global flood.) So Noah and 7 other people get on the ark and are saved from drowning along with 7 pairs of every clean animal and 1 pair of every unclean animal as defined by God. This Flood last around 370 days, or a little over a year. There are a multitude of studies done of the feasability of the ark. John Woodmorappe (biography) has some amazing studies on this, check them out sometime. Once this family debarked from the ark and began the process of repopulating the earth, we have the incident at the tower of Babel. The groups, with confounded languages, split up and make their way to different parts of the world. Natural selection and adaptation occurs depending on the environmental conditions each group faced. Northern Europe equalled less sun so you have less melanin needed in the skin and fairer skinned people are more suitable to that environment. Closer to the equator you have more sun and the people with more melanin in their skin have a higher rate of survivability. Darker skinned people survive better there. One thing is interesting about every culture on this planet - they have some type of flood story in their culture. Every single culture includes some variation of a huge flood in their past; kind of intriguing but not surprising if you believe in a global flood. We are all related - we are all family.

Now, that is a lot of information and it is based on the axiom with which I choose to start. I personally believe it better answers the questions of the world and better fits the facts, the same facts you all have access to, to explain and confirm what happened in history. Again, there is no way of proving it 100%, but all I can do is try and confirm what I see today with the facts and see which axiom is better able to fit the facts.

There is a lot more information I could share, but I think I have hit the main points.

 

Hamma, you are exactly right in saying that we all start with a bias. Yours may be a naturalistic one mine is based on the Bible.

What we need to do is try and figure out which one comes closest to confirming the facts as we see them. We can't confimr the past because it is the past. So we try to confirm what we see in the present.

It has not been proven that the earth is 4.5 billion years old. That is a theory that some use to try and explain the earth and its formation and current state. Nobody can prove that age. As a matter of fact, many feel they can disprove that age with current facts and confirmable experiments. There is a lot of dissent in how old the earth is.

To get to your quandary - yes, there is a lot of stuff out there that can get in the way of us as individuals deciding what we will personally believe. That is why we as individuals need to do the research, then make an intelligent, informed, decision.

I personally have done that.

It has led me to God and His creation of the earth 6000 or so years ago, humanity starting with Adam and Eve, who rebelled and, populated the earth followed by a global flood about 4000 or so years ago, Noah and his family repopulating earth, and the dispersion of the people groups from Babel.

I have researched this process for over 2 years and to be honest I started out as an evolutionist. But the facts didn't support my naturalistic viewpoint as well as the Creationist one did! It shocked me! So, here I am today sharing what I believe to be true. Granted, it is an axiom most here might argue or debate me on.

But I do believe it.

 

Agreed, its a long time no matter how you look at it.

Well, I did need an answer because I wanted to know why we are here and what my part in all this is. I wanted to, maybe even needed to, know that I had some reason for existing. There has to be more to all this than just being born to exist for however long then die. What I found, in a nutshell, is that it pretty much boils down to two things:
a) We all just are born, live, and then die.
b) We are born for a reason, a purpose - there is a meaning to life other than a).

You can decide which one to go with. I looked at those choices and decided that b) was more appealing to me because it provided what every human being needs - hope. It led me to where I am now. If you choose a) then fine, but what's the point? I mean, why?

Oops! Hamma edited while I was quoting him!

The Bible was written over a 1500 year span of time by over 40 different authors. Yet it is incredibly singular in it's focus and message. It's a miracle if someone can run a guild of 30 people and get them to agree on ONE loot practice let alone have them all write their own loot rules and see if it matches!