Theres no appropriate title

Hamma-
u made me snot on my self from laughing so hard =)

 

Test,
I am truely sorry also if I came across that way.
Please accept my sincere apology if I have offended you.

I do wish you well on your quest for the truth.

With love.
Zab

 

Man has proven time and again wielding judgement is beyond his capability as a mere human, lacking omniscience. Even in the issue of the death penalty which this thread visited briefly, wasn't Jesus, himself crucified? Would you say that is God's statement for or against the death penalty? Do you think he believed his son was rightfully judged or wrongfully judged?

 

According to the Bible, Jesus was innocent. But He chose to die in our place to justify the wrath God has for our rebellion/disobedience/sin. God's judgement is perfect, but ours, as you stated (and I agree) is not.

 

It had to be done. I hate thinking about it and it makes me really weep every time I really think about what was done. It was all for you and I.
I don't know anyone I could ever do that for. He gave His life, so that you and I could have eternal life with Him. He is the only perfect one that could ever fullfill what God required from the Law. That is Love, that God would send His Son to die for you and I that we may have eternal life with Him.

It really breaks my heart know that Christ died for my sins. I deserve His punishment. He took my punishment for me-and yours.

 

Justify, or illustrate to those of us who are ignorant?

Is judgement not the cruellest and most ignorant sin of all? It is the basis of all human suffering.

 

I'm not an expert here, but I suppose that if you subscribe to the idea of an omnipotent God, then our sins would have been known to that God 2000 years ago.

 

Perhaps he died "because" of our sins...judgement. ...but how could God judge us for being imperfect when he made us this way?

 

It kinda goes back to the free will thing that we talked about earlier.

When God made Adam & Eve He said it was very good. Indicating that there was no sin (& no death).

7Then the LORD God formed man of (H)dust from the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and (I)man became a living being.

8The LORD God planted a (J)garden toward the east, in Eden; and there He placed the man whom He had formed.

9Out of the ground the LORD God caused to grow (K)every tree that is pleasing to the sight and good for food; (L)the tree of life also in the midst of the garden, and the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.

______

16The LORD God (Q)commanded the man, saying, "From any tree of the garden you may eat freely;

17but from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat from it (R)you will surely die."

___

Soon after God told Adam this we see Satan and Eve on the scene.

Genesis Chapter 3

The Fall of Man
1Now (A)the serpent was more crafty than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said to the woman, "Indeed, has God said, 'You shall not eat from any tree of the garden'?"
2The woman said to the serpent, "(B)From the fruit of the trees of the garden we may eat;

3but from the fruit of the tree which is in the middle of the garden, God has said, 'You shall not eat from it or touch it, or you will die.'"

4(C)The serpent said to the woman, "You surely will not die!

5"For God knows that in the day you eat from it your eyes will be opened, and (D)you will be like God, knowing good and evil."

6(E)When the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was a delight to the eyes, and that the tree was desirable to make one wise, she took from its fruit and ate; and she gave also to her husband with her, and he ate.

7Then the eyes of both of them were opened, and they (F)knew that they were naked; and they sewed fig leaves together and made themselves loin coverings.


Notice in vs. 3 - this is not what God had told Adam previously.
Satan just changed the wording, just a little bit and that's all it took.

13Then the LORD God said to the woman, "What is this you have done?" And the woman said, "(L)The serpent deceived me, and I ate."

14The LORD God said to the serpent,
"(M)Because you have done this,
Cursed are you more than all cattle,
And more than every beast of the field;
On your belly you will go,
And (N)dust you will eat
All the days of your life;
15And I will put (O)enmity
Between you and the woman,
And between your seed and her seed;
(P)He shall bruise you on the head,
And you shall bruise him on the heel."

16To the woman He said,
"I will greatly multiply
Your pain in childbirth,
In pain you will (Q)bring forth children;
Yet your desire will be for your husband,
And (R)he will rule over you."

17Then to Adam He said, "Because you have listened to the voice of your wife, and have eaten from the tree about which I commanded you, saying, 'You shall not eat from it';
(S)Cursed is the ground because of you;
(T)In toil you will eat of it
All the days of your life.
18"Both thorns and thistles it shall grow for you;
And you will eat the plants of the field;
19By the sweat of your face
You will eat bread,
Till you (U)return to the ground,
Because (V)from it you were taken;
For you are dust,
And to dust you shall return."

You see, they sinned against God by not obeying his Word.
The judgement for sin is death (This is what He requires). That is why everyone of us will die. No one has ever not died that I know of.


Since God Law must be perfect He requires a payment for the breaking of His Law. He sent Christ as a sacrifice for our sins.

From one man sin entered the world & from one Man, justification is brought into this world

 

Then your final judgement day will be your God asking, "Can you forgive me for making you imperfect?" and at that moment he will be my God and I will say, "Yes, I forgive you, and I understand you. I know you. You are family. I love you, Father."

 

May I ask you a question?

Have you ever been to court charged with a crime-speeding or whatever.

How do you talk to the judge in the court room?

 

Have you ever been terrified by the sound of your own name spoken aloud no matter how kind and soft the tone? Have you learned that if you express joy over something it will be taken away and destroyed? Have you ever learned that if someone compliments you, you will pay for it later? Have you had every single thing you ever accomplished hidden from you or destroyed?

I've lived a life of being wrongfully judged that started with the color of my eyes. Have you ever had someone terrorize you because your eyes are brown instead of blue?

I have dealt with judges all my life. I recede to a place in my mind where they can't touch me. I can now turn off physical pain...something I learned as a young child.

Have you ever gone through this?

You don't speak to a judge. You agree with whatever they say and then retreat to the darkest corner you can find to cry alone.

 

Outside of satirical movies and comic skits, I have never seen "sin" listed as a cause of death.

That stands as religious rhetoric. You cannot look at the system "He" has devised and attempt to explain it away as "His will".

The idea of supreme beings originated from man's efforts to understand events that he could not explain any other way. In a primitive era where there is no concept or notion of gravity or basic principals of physics, its comforting to believe that a benevolent being causes the sun to rise and set daily.

The bible is a book, no different than any other work of fiction.

 

yes i have. Sorry, it's not fair nor right is it

 

You've been terrified by the sound of your own name uttered aloud? If you're not just saying that, then you were abused as a child.

My first stepmother, Jadon, was named after a judge in the bible, ironically. She was declared insane and committed to an institution about a year after my father divorced her. She was sadistic.

Sadly, she could deal out nothing that could hurt me in comparison to what my own mother and father did. Was it a blessing in disguise that I was numb to her punishment? Perhaps, but also a curse.

I ask you to be careful when you tread on this ground. Make sure you don't misrepresent yourself, because here, when I lose trust in you, it's gone. I can forgive you, but I probably won't be able to trust you ever again.

 

God cannot make mistakes, for that would mean He is not God. When God created man, he gave man a freedom of choice as part of the His image. Freedom of choice means we can rebel against His wishes. When we do this, we commit evil. This is not God's desire nor His plan, but it is rebellion on man's part. But this is the risk of being able to have freedom of choice. Evil and suffering are the result of making bad free choices.

Opinion or fact? If opinion, please share why you think so. If fact please provide proof. It is a fact, actually, that the Bible is recognized as one of the greatest pieces of literature ever written, whether you agree with it's contents or not.

That is the point exactly - this current "system" is not His will, but the result of man's rebellion and the consequences of that rebellion.

 

Ohm, You hit the nail on the head.

My dad was an abusive alcoholic. We are not just talking about a couple of drinks during the week. We are talking about a half gallon of vodka every night. He was so drunk by the time I came home from sports practice, he could barely walk. I will skip all the details, but I too had an absolutely pathetic childhood. Absolutely pathetic!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Then why did he make me?

 

You are still young. I can tell. And if you went through what I went through, then you are worth talking to, to me.